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LED Scanner

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Lance

Joined: Oct 08 2007
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Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:49 pm

So I stumbled across some post about them on here, but I am still clueless.

I want the scanner to go back and forth, but all the diagrams I see about 95 percent I dont understand on it.

What my plan is, is to make it my theft light flasher.

Any help would be appreciated!

-Lance
Lance

Joined: Oct 08 2007
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Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:25 pm

So I just ordered the 555 IC, but I can't find the 4017 chip anywhere.

This is the circuit I am using: (dunno if it is the right one)

Also, I ordered some LEDs off Oznium with some resistors today, will I will still be able to hook this up to a 12v source even though it says 5 to 6 in the diagram?
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:31 am

^^^
I didn't look up any of the IC's on the diagram but I'm assuming the pins the 4.5-6V connects to are the input pins. If that's the case you will need to put a resistor in series to lower the voltage from 12V to 4.5-6V. 12V would fry the IC.
Radioflyer

Joined: Sep 25 2007
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:47 am

I'd be interested to see this (subscribed)
kornholio788

Joined: May 02 2005
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:28 pm

If you bought the resistors that come with the leds then you can hood up as many as you would like as long as they are wired in parallel. I think it is like 4 or 5 if you do them in series without resistors. As for the scanner. I just buy the led meteors. But he is out of all colors but green i think idk. It has some nice patterns on it and is simple. I have 8 meteor kits and i love em. Really nice cuz they can do like 6 or so different patterns from scrolling to strobing to steady on.
lbjshaq2345

Joined: Jul 11 2007
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:35 pm

If you're lookin for more meteors anybody check out http://customsoundandmore.com/catalog/
Exact same ones they were selling here and they have all the colors including UV icon_twisted.gif
Radioflyer

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:11 pm

The meteor kit is nice, however the LEDs are groups in sections of 3. Even if you were able to hook them up in the proper sequence, it would hardly constitue a "scanner" What you could do is hook up each LED of th meteor individually (12 I think) and that would make a nice scanner
mx107marlin

Joined: Aug 12 2007
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Nobody's mentioned so far that this chip is for a counter....

Ex. Led# 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.........

you're wanting a scanner,
Ex. Led# 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,2,3.....


Just wanted to point that out, if you hook it up and everything works like it's supposed to it will scroll through the LED's and then start over rather than scrolling through, scrolling backwards and then starting over.

Nice idea though, I wonder if you put bigger transistors in and ran 12V through them would you be able to control bigger loads, like up to 1Amp? I'm thinking that it'd make a sweet scrolling feature for something circular...without the blasted clicking of 10 relays clicking at 15 Hz.....

Remember as well that if you use this according to the diagram it will run at 15hz...so it will only take it 2 seconds to cycle 3 times....just to keep it in mind.
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:02 pm

mx107marlin wrote:
Nice idea though, I wonder if you put bigger transistors in and ran 12V through them would you be able to control bigger loads, like up to 1Amp? I'm thinking that it'd make a sweet scrolling feature for something circular...without the blasted clicking of 10 relays clicking at 15 Hz.....

Remember as well that if you use this according to the diagram it will run at 15hz...so it will only take it 2 seconds to cycle 3 times....just to keep it in mind.


For the diagram it's at 15Hz but that's EASILY changed. Change the time constant of the circuit and you can make the frequency whatever is desired.

To fix the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,.... Just make the scanner only 5 LEDs long that way LEDs 1,2,3,4, and 5 are in a "forward" direction while LEDs 6,7,8,9, and 10 are in a "backward" direction.
Lance

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:11 pm

Good. That will help.

Found this:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/jethawk/LEDhelp3.gif

Will that work?

Only, I want 10 leds only...and I will have different resistors, the ones I ordered with my Red LEDS from Oz.

Any Idea where I can get some 4017's? I have searched and searched and no one has them.


Last edited by Lance on Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:27 pm

Thinks I would change...I would use 1 LED instead of 2 per output pin. Instead of using 10 resistors, I would use one resistor (placed on the ground wire). I wouldn't use a 47K Ohm resistor and 1uF Capacitor, 15Hz will be WAY too fast. I would shoot for something around 1Hz to 1/2 Hz.

I believe the chip you're looking for is a 4016, I've never heard of this 4017.
Lance

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:37 pm

So get rid of the 47k ohm resistor and uF capacitor...or downgrade them.
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:43 pm

The scanning frequency is 1.44/(2*R*C)
kornholio788

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:57 am

WOW you guys are over my head there lol. But if you just want a little theft deterrant scanner then i know autozone sells them. But if you want to make one for the sake of doing it your self more props to ya man. But like i said i know autozone or advanced auto sells them. Dont know the price tho. GOOD LUCK..and thanks everyone for helpin him out
mx107marlin

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:33 am

With that setup you WILL NOT be able to make a 10 LED scanner, you could make a 5 LED scanner by hooking pins 3, 2, 4, 7, and 10 to LED's 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 respectively, then hooking pins 1, 5, 6, 9, and 11 to LED's 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 respectively.

That would create a scanner that will go back and forth on 5 LED's

So it would light up LED's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and repeat. The LED's on each end will be lit by twice the rate of flash, so if you go with 1 Hz, they will run at .5Hz, if you run the counter at 15Hz, they will run at 7.5Hz, while the other lights (2,3,4) run at 15Hz.
PwrRngr

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:31 am

^^^
Right, that's what I was trying to say earlier but it wasn't as clear as you stated.
Lance

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:43 am

mx107marlin wrote:
With that setup you WILL NOT be able to make a 10 LED scanner, you could make a 5 LED scanner by hooking pins 3, 2, 4, 7, and 10 to LED's 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 respectively, then hooking pins 1, 5, 6, 9, and 11 to LED's 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 respectively.

That would create a scanner that will go back and forth on 5 LED's

So it would light up LED's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and repeat. The LED's on each end will be lit by twice the rate of flash, so if you go with 1 Hz, they will run at .5Hz, if you run the counter at 15Hz, they will run at 7.5Hz, while the other lights (2,3,4) run at 15Hz.


Exactly what I am going to do. Just need a better diagram of exactly how I need to do it, and a parts list.
mx107marlin

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:27 pm

Lance wrote:

Exactly what I am going to do. Just need a better diagram of exactly how I need to do it, and a parts list.


Here you go,

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r269/mx107/5LEDScanner-1.gif

And here are the values for R and C

(each line is a different possibility)

1Hz (once a second)

    R = 720k C = 1uF
    R = 360k C = 2uF
    R = 240k C = 3uF
    R = 180k C = 4uF



.5 Hz (once every other second)

    R = 1440k C = 1uF
    R = 180k C = 8uF
    R = 144k C = 10uF
    R = 96k C = 15uF


PwrRngr - Please check my numbers on that.


Last edited by mx107marlin on Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total
PwrRngr

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:36 pm

Those numbers to look good and the circuit looks good except one BIG thing. I looked at my data sheets for the 2N3904 transistor and the max Emitter-Base voltage is 6V. Your source voltage is 12V won't work.
mx107marlin

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:40 pm

So do we know of a transistor that will work at 12V?


Anyways.

Here's a diagram if you wanted for a 6 LED scanner

They will light up in this order LED # 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3.....

Each LED will only be on for 1 times the Hz....so LED's 1 and 6 will only be on for a second a piece at 1 Hz rather than 2 seconds as in the 5 LED model.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r269/mx107/6LEDScanner.gif

NOTE: The values for R and C will remain the same as mentioned above.


Last edited by mx107marlin on Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total
PwrRngr

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:54 pm

Never mind what I said about the 6V. The collector is connected to the 12V not the base. I just can't follow the lines. DUH!
mx107marlin

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:59 pm

LOL....you're fine, but isn't the chip putting out 12V too, because it's connected to 12V?

Here's another way to do it.

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/KittScanner/KittScannerP2.html

Explained with a parts list.....I like the one we're doing better, but this one would work.
Lance

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:59 pm

Excellent. Thanks for all you that are helping out.

I picked the first line on the resistors, the only thing they had closest to it was a 715k, will that still be fine?

Thanks a bunch!

-Lance


Last edited by Lance on Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total
PwrRngr

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:09 pm

I'll guarantee that digikey has whatever you're looking for. I almost always buy my electronic stuff from there.
mx107marlin

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:11 pm

No problem with the helping thing, that's what the community's here for

as for where to buy.....here you go

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=89K0559&CMP=AFC-GB100000001

Froogle FTW

Or as PwrRngr said http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=568-2683-5-ND

Digikey is more than 200% more expensive though
PwrRngr

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:31 pm

If you buy $25 or more of stuff off Digikey they drop the $5 handling fee. I never have a problem spending $25 on electronics.
mx107marlin

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Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:48 pm

I was talking about the actual unit price, I didn't look into shipping/handling charges.

Newark is 24.9 cents and DigiKey is 78 cents

No big deal, I was just making a point. I seriously doubt that he will be spending $25 there. heck you could probably buy 5 of everything he needs for this project for 25 bucks. biglaugh.gif

On a new note, the 270 ohm resistor will have to be changed right? This digram is using amber LED's, the 270 ohm resistor will have to be changed to match the LED's that are installed right?

And transistors are basically acting like little relays in this diagram right?

For the record, this chip is stable up to 20V max according to Newark (I believe that's where I got that)
Lance

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:29 am

Yes, I ordered everything last night, but the 270 resistor will probably need changed. The LEDs I am using are the clear red ones from oznium.
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:58 am

Yeah, the 715k will be fine

If you use a 715k resistor and a 1uF capacitor you'll get 1.007 Hz

If you use a 715k resistor and a 2uF capacitor you'll get .5035 Hz


I think those are close enough for what we're doing.

The 270ohm resistor will need to be changed to a 560ohm (According to Oznium store page for the Red 3 and 5mm LED's)
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:54 am

Here's the updated Diagram for the post above

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r269/mx107/6LEDScanner_oz.gif


Last edited by mx107marlin on Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:14 pm

Updated Diagram with Less transistors to wire in

User posted image


I took out the other Diagrams and turned them into links to let the page load faster and make it less cumbersome and confusing. They're still there, just click on the links.
Lance

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:32 pm

Thanks a bunch.

And yes, Digikey is bad about the 5 bucks handling and 8 shipping, but that is life.

I am making 2 of these anyways.

Gonna finish the order later on.

Also, different size blue resistor now?

Thanks again!
PwrRngr

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:56 pm

You can model this all on SPICE. It's a good program. Post pictures/video when you're finished. I'm thinking about doing this for my turn signals (when I can find time); kinda like the sequential tail lights but a bit different.
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:54 pm

Yeah, different size blue resistor, because you're using different LED's than was called for in the original design. The Oznium LED's require a different voltage than the ones in the original diagram.

PwrRngr, I have SPICE, but I can't figure out how to use it...I've been editing these in Paint.
Lance

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:03 pm

Anything else not mentioned need changing? If not, I am going to proceed with my order.
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:33 pm

Nope, you can do it exactly like the diagram above, I would get 15-17 of the transistors, they are easy to burn up if you aren't good at soldering. That way you have a few to burn up before you get to where you start running out.

Here's a tip, if you're soldering them to a circuit board, place an alligator clip between the board and the transistor to act as a heat sink, that way the heat can't damage the component.
Lance

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:35 pm

Alrighty, just has to be the most expensive of the pieces too xD.

Thanks.
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:41 pm

are they really? I wouldn't have guessed that... Just make sure you're careful, solder quickly with as little heat as possible, and use some sort of heat sink between where you're soldering and the transistor itself...
Lance

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:45 pm

.50 each, I am ordering 18 so its 9 bucks lol. Anyways, thanks for your help.

I will keep the tip for soldering in mind too! icon_wink.gif
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:58 pm

lol, you're welcome.... Let me know if you need any more help.
PwrRngr

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:09 pm

mx107marlin, your Avatar is about the sweetest thing I've seen. Sorry for being off topic.
mx107marlin

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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:34 pm

lol, thanks.....It'll stay for a little while, probably won't be permanent though....

You'd be surprised how many times I go to smack my screen as well.....even though I know what it is.
Lance

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Post Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:41 pm

According to the tracking number, it all should be delivered tomorrow and I get to start soldering icon_biggrin.gif
PwrRngr

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Post Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:51 pm

Post some pictures and videos when you get it finished when you get it to work.
Lance

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:40 am

Ok so I got the pieces, but I dunno how to hook some of them up.

First would be the 4017 chip, it has 10 leads on each side, thats not how many there are in the picture.

The transistors are next, these are puny, and I mean really tiny, they have 3 leads on each side which add up to 6, but the diagram only shows 3 connections.

The 555 timer has 3 on each side, but I dunno what number the sides are.

The voltage regulator has 4 leads on it, dunno how to even wire that in.

And lastly, does it matter what way I wire the capacitor in?

Sorry for soo many questions.
PwrRngr

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:49 am

I'm not exactly sure what you ordered. The 4017 chip should have 8 leads per side. The transistors should only have a total of 3 leads (base, collector, and emitter). The 555 timer should have 4 leads per side. It shouldn't matter which way you wire the capacitor unless it's a polarized capacitor. If you don't know if it's a polarized capacitor, look at the leads. MOST of the time (not all the time) if one lead is longer than the other, it's polarized.

Post the links where you ordered the stuff and I'll look over it to see exactly what you've bought.
Lance

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:38 am

I got the stuff from digikey:

Transistors: XN0653700LCT-ND
4017 Chip: 497-1350-5-ND
555 Timer: Ebay...so maybe it is the wrong one?
PwrRngr

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:45 am

I looked up your transistors and they're dual transistors. Essentially, each one of your transistor ICs is equivalent to 2 transistors on the diagram. Meaning, you're only going to need 3 if you don't burn them.

Look at the 4017 chip again because the data sheet says it only has 8 pins per side (16 total). Your 555 times should also have 4 pins per side (8 total).

If you're want to know what each pin does go to the data sheet from digikey. To get there go to the homepage of digikey and search for the product by the product number. About halfway down the page there should be a table of stuff and one heading should say "Technical/Catalog Information" Next to that should be the part number (it's a hyperlink). Click the part number and it should bring you to another page where you can load the datasheet. Everything you need to know about the chip will be on the datasheet.

I hope this helps. If you have any further questions continue to ask.
Lance

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:18 pm

Ok, I found the diagrams, thanks a bunch!

How can I solder something that small (transistor). Its as small as a pea.

The chip is 8 per side, I miscounted...

The only thing they dont have is a diagram for the 4 pin voltage regulator.
PwrRngr

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:18 pm

what voltage regulator are you using?
Lance

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:23 pm

425-2287-5-nd
PwrRngr

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:43 pm

Voltage Regulator:

Pin 1: DC Input
Pin 2: DC Output
Pin 3: Ground
Pin 4: Output Voltage minute Adjustment
Lance

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

So I dont need to use pin 4?

Also, I started soldering, is there anywhere I can get big transistors? There is no way I can solder these...these are like 1cm long. Like a substitution. Other than that, the thing is done, just have to solder in the transistors when I get some different ones...
Lance

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Post Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:11 pm

Ordered the new transistors.

Just lettin ya know the project didnt fall lol.
Josiah

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Post Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:35 am

I really wanted to do this, I installed signals in my mirrors as you can see in the pic below. However these diagrams are intimidating.


PwrRngr

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Post Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:59 am

Thread revival....Lance, whatever happened to this project? Did you get it working and do you have pictures?
Lance

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:05 pm

Never worked out.

Wouldnt work.
mx107marlin

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:44 pm

Lance wrote:
Never worked out.

Wouldnt work.


I'm gonna have to build one now... Just because... Maybe if I can make them easily/cheap I'll sell some on here, looks like a lot of people could use them.
Lance

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:46 pm

Yeah..cost me 40 bucks in parts ><. Digikey ripped me off ftw.
mx107marlin

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:03 pm

how'd that happen? Any words of wisdom, I've never dealt with them personally.
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:15 pm

mx107marlin wrote:
how'd that happen? Any words of wisdom, I've never dealt with them personally.


Buy a lot of components at once to avoid the $5.00 handling fee.
mx107marlin

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:39 pm

ah....gotcha... I'm probably gonna get my stuff locally. I think I'll try building this... I haven't ever BUILT anything even this complex... that's sad I know.

Hey, how do you connect pieces on PC Board.... do you use one of those circuit pens, or just solder wires on the opposing side of the board... How do you do it when you don't have a pre-printed circuit board?
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:51 pm

Stick the pins through the holes and solder them in place. It sounds easy but making it look good takes a decent amount of practice.
mx107marlin

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:19 pm

lol, I got that part.... I mean connecting them... like do you just stick the leads from the 2 different devices in the same hole, or do something like the "real" circuit boards and scatter the pieces out on the board, and connect them with wire....

I guess what I'm asking is how do you connect them all together electrically, not physically to the board.
PwrRngr

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:36 pm

I usually buy boards that have the same layout as breadboards. All the vertical pins are connected together while the horizontal pins aren't connected together.
mx107marlin

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:42 pm

alrighty....thanks.

I'm gonna go pick up a breadboard at work tomorrow anyways. I'll mess with it and see what I can do.
Tdawgthegreatest

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Location: Florence, Oregon


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Post Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:46 am

I hope you figure this out... I want one
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