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Is Diesel really cheaper?

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mx107marlin

Joined: Aug 12 2007
Posts: 3095
Location: Fairborn, OH


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:28 am

So as some know, I'm moving from Selma, AL to Somewhere in Ohio (Springfield area).

I just rented my Penske truck and trailer yesterday. (22' Truck and a Car Carrier)

Got the car carrier just because I don't like the idea of one set of wheels spinning at 70Mph while the others are still.


Anyways, the bigger trucks are diesel (22 and 26 foot) and the smaller ones are gasoline (10 and 16 foot). According to Penske, they recommend the diesel trucks because they're cheaper per-mile to drive, even with diesel being more expensive.

Any opinions on the efficiency of diesel vs gasoline in big engines? Trying to decide if I want to downgrade to the 16' truck (saves me 50 bucks)

Whatcha think?
kornholio788

Joined: May 02 2005
Posts: 9748
Location: Tosa, WI


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:31 am

I can't imagine that it being actually being cheaper per mile to drive. With the load that you are carrying I can't see it getting good mileage obviously. And it isn't like diesel is just barely more expensive. It is over 4 bucks a gallon here. I would see how many miles you are going and just calculate it out via the MPG. But I don't see the diesel winning here. But I don't know for sure as I don't know much about them. But the price of diesel is just too high over the price of gas right now. It is like 75 cents a gallon more expensive here.
Kevin_S

Joined: Jul 20 2003
Posts: 2809
Location: WV


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:38 am

diesel engines are only more efficient because they last longer (because they run significantly lower rpm) ...which doesn't matter to you at all.

go with gas. diesel is way more expensive right now.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:47 am

Here's my opinion backed w/ a theoretical example.

Say the vehicles have a 10 gallon tank. The gas truck gets 15mph. Gas is $3.50 per gallon and diesel is $4.20 per gallon.

That means it'll cost $35 to fill up the gas truck and it will drive for 150 miles. That's 23.3 cents/mile. It will cost $42 to fill up the diesel truck. In order to have the same price per mile as the gas the diesel would need to have a mpg rating greater than or equal to 18mpg. So, if the diesel gets 3mpg better than the gas vehicle (which I would imagine it does) I would go with diesel.

This is just an estimate but as the mpg of the gas truck goes down the diesel would have to make less and less mpg. I would vote for the diesel.
mx107marlin

Joined: Aug 12 2007
Posts: 3095
Location: Fairborn, OH


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:56 am

Well when I did the calculations, it looked like the Diesel was a little cheaper. (this was before I reserved)

Penske publishes the following MPG values for it's diesel and gasoline trucks.

Diesel - 9Mpg - 50Gal tank
Gasoline - 5.5Mpg - 35 Gal tank

My total mileage will be approx 750

Now I don't know if those values are real or have been altered. Keep in mind that the trucks will have the same weight regardless of which one it is (I've gotta take the same amount of stuff).

Penske told me that I had an estimated fuel savings of $85 for my trip duration, even at current prices. (The diesel truck is $50 more expensive)

EDIT... Gas prices for me and this trip will average ~$3.30/gal for Gas, ~$3.90-4.00/gal for diesel...
pOrk

Joined: Jan 03 2004
Posts: 8391
Location: Milwaukee Wi


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:35 am

Diesels get much better fuel mileage then gassers do. The diesel won't struggle at all either
Knox

Joined: Feb 12 2003
Posts: 6851
Location: Orlando, FL


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:37 am

Diesel will give you better pulling power, better gas mileage, and will last a hell of a lot longer than a gas engine.
Ryu

Joined: Dec 31 2005
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:12 am

^^ x2 Diesel ftw.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:52 am

Kevin_S wrote:
go with gas. diesel is way more expensive right now.


HAHA, it is cheaper per gallon but that's it. Overall, diesel is MUCH cheaper.

Using the numbers MX posted the gas has a price of 60 cents/mile and the diesel has a price of 44.4 cents/mile. Even though diesel is costs $0.70/gallon more at the pump, it's cheaper to use than gas.
Kevin_S

Joined: Jul 20 2003
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Location: WV


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:37 pm

PwrRngr wrote:
Kevin_S wrote:
go with gas. diesel is way more expensive right now.


HAHA, it is cheaper per gallon but that's it. Overall, diesel is MUCH cheaper.

Using the numbers MX posted the gas has a price of 60 cents/mile and the diesel has a price of 44.4 cents/mile. Even though diesel is costs $0.70/gallon more at the pump, it's cheaper to use than gas.

I still say gas.
- It's much easier to find.
- It's cheaper at the pump.
- You're going to get about equal mileage because you're running the diesel engine at higher rpms due to the higher speeds AND the gas truck is a smaller truck (if the smaller truck is an option, why even consider the bigger truck?)

That's just my viewpoint...of course having a family business that burns an average of $3400 of diesel EVERY half doesn't make me an expert or anything but I am by no means an idiot on the subject, as you are making me out to be...

/end my discussion on the topic.
corvettecrazy

Joined: Dec 17 2003
Posts: 4357
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:06 pm

when I moved a few weeks ago Uhaul gave me a gas truck stating that it could do all the same and would be cheaper. Also, stating that despite the better mpg, the higher cost of fuel would make it neglectable.

although doing the math wouldn't be that hard.

the majority of the discussion of diesel vs gas in this thread really doesn't pertain to the asked question.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:11 pm

Kevin_S wrote:
I still say gas.
- It's much easier to find.
- It's cheaper at the pump.
- You're going to get about equal mileage because you're running the diesel engine at higher rpms due to the higher speeds AND the gas truck is a smaller truck (if the smaller truck is an option, why even consider the bigger truck?)

That's just my viewpoint...of course having a family business that burns an average of $3400 of diesel EVERY half doesn't make me an expert or anything but I am by no means an idiot on the subject, as you are making me out to be...

/end my discussion on the topic.


I'm not basing my opinion on personal experience. I'm basing my judgement on facts! The diesel gets 9mpg and the gas gets 5.5mpg, you're going to have a hard time argueing against that.
Saying the gas and diesel are going to get the same gas mileage is ignorant to say the least. There are facts (not opinions based on a family business) that say the diesel gets better gas mileage.
From there you run numbers based on the current price of each product and the mpg rating to achieve a value for cost/mile.
Now for some opinion agruement (which is a terrible way to attempt to argue a point):
- I have yet to go to a gas station that doesn't have both gas and diesel. I conclude they are just as easy to find.
- Gas is cheaper at the pump but diesel is cheaper overall.
- If you don't want to spend extra money on fuel then get the diesel vehicle

These are just my viewpoints...of course being able to do some basic math, based off facts, doesn't make me an expert or anything. biglaugh.gif

Next time you have an arguement to make, back it with some facts. An arguement based completly on opinion/personal experience holds no water.
KrzysD

Joined: Nov 07 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Streamwood IL


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:16 pm

Is Diesel really cheaper? Yes
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
Posts: 4407


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:28 pm

I put the number MX gave in an excel sheet and here is the total cost.

GAS:
Total Fuel Consumption: 136.36 gallons
Total Fuel Cost: $450.00
Number of Fill ups: 4

Diesel:
Total Fuel Consumption: 83.33 gallons
Total Fuel Cost: $333.33
Number of Fill ups: 2

MX, even with the extra $50 for the diesel you will be saving just over $65 total.
Kevin_S

Joined: Jul 20 2003
Posts: 2809
Location: WV


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:54 pm

PwrRngr wrote:

These are just my viewpoints...of course being able to do some basic math, based off facts, doesn't make me an expert or anything. biglaugh.gif

Next time you have an arguement to make, back it with some facts. An arguement based completly on opinion/personal experience holds no water.

wtf ever dude. I have stated what I based my opinion on. In EVERY topic, you always try to put everyone else down and prove that you are some "higher" level than they are. Just accept someone else's viewpoint and learn to respect.

Get off that **** highhorse of yours...if that's too hard for you to do, then go the **** somewhere else.

It's highly disrespectful for you to insult someone simply because they disagree with your opinion. I stated in my first post that diesel was more efficient in the long run but I'd prefer a gas engine if renting a uhaul for a short trip...there's no reason for you to show your level of immaturity and start namecalling.

Forget it...go **** yourself. Most of you guys on oz are awesome people but forums are just a waste of time in general
...I'm on AIM so you know how to talk to me...
peace.

EIDT: just for clarity, I'll state the following:
Diesel has higher BTUs
Diesel engines are usually direct injection

However, I still prefer a gasoline engine....is it THAT hard to accept? Apparently so.
02BlueStang

Joined: Dec 13 2004
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:30 pm

Diesel is going to give you A LOT better MPG than a gas engine....My guess would be that gas and diesel are about the same right now cost wise....Diesel is more expensive but it lasts longer....gas is cheaper but doesnt go as long...its about equal..

power department though I would go diesel, they tend to pull a lot better with larger loads.
PwrRngr

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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:58 pm

Kevin_S wrote:
wtf ever dude. I have stated what I based my opinion on. In EVERY topic, you always try to put everyone else down and prove that you are some "higher" level than they are. Just accept someone else's viewpoint and learn to respect.

Get off that **** highhorse of yours...if that's too hard for you to do, then go the **** somewhere else.

It's highly disrespectful for you to insult someone simply because they disagree with your opinion. I stated in my first post that diesel was more efficient in the long run but I'd prefer a gas engine if renting a uhaul for a short trip...there's no reason for you to show your level of immaturity and start namecalling.

Forget it...go **** yourself. Most of you guys on oz are awesome people but forums are just a waste of time in general
...I'm on AIM so you know how to talk to me...
peace.


I didn't put any opinion in my statements really. I calculated numbers from facts and stated which one would be cheaper. It's not really an opinion questions, it was which is cheaper.
Why would you recommend him renting a gas truck when he'll save ~$65 if he rents a diesel? That's an honest question I would like answered. It doesn't make any sense to me why you would recommend renting a vehicle that's going to cost more.
90mustang

Joined: Oct 23 2007
Posts: 165


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:10 pm

i'd say go with the diesel not only because of the money you'll save, but you will have more room in the truck (don't have to cram everything in), and you only have to make 2 fuel stops, versus making 4 stops with the gasoline truck.

just something to think about
mx107marlin

Joined: Aug 12 2007
Posts: 3095
Location: Fairborn, OH


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:56 pm

After reading everything again on the Penske website as well as on here, I think that I will stay with the Diesel.

I've heard that most of penske's Diesel trucks are turbo-diesel's so that will help tremendously through the mountainous region (what little there is). I'm also concerned that the gasoline engine might not pull as well with the car on the trailer behind it. Same with brakes, Bigger truck with bigger engine and bigger brakes, designed to carry a bigger load will always be safer, even if it's not at full capacity.

I have a certain amount of stuff to transport, I'm not sure it will fit in a 16 foot, It should, but I'm not 100% positive. If it does, it will be a tight fit. If you go with the 16 foot gasoline, you're pretty much running it at max capacity (full load) AND then adding a trailer to it.

The diesel may or may not be cheaper, but even if you disregard fuel costs, I know I'll have enough room and that I wont be filling it to capacity (probably running at 70% of Max load) and then adding a trailer to it. It will probably pull the trailer much easier, and would actually have a better fuel economy than normal because of the lower load. Not to mention easier to stop suddenly if need be...

Even without the fuel savings, and only having a $50 cost difference, it sounds like the diesel is a better deal, No?
corvettecrazy

Joined: Dec 17 2003
Posts: 4357
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:35 pm

marlin: i towed my car (full trailer not a dollie) behind a 10' uhaul box truck and it you wouldn;t have even known it was back there.

In addition by the pictures I saw on their site penske trailers are of the same design idea as uhaul and they will come with self contained trailer brakes. Which will make it seem like it isn;t back there even more.
mx107marlin

Joined: Aug 12 2007
Posts: 3095
Location: Fairborn, OH


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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:44 pm

^Thanks, good info there...

My car will be on a full trailer too... do you think it affected your gas mileage much?
corvettecrazy

Joined: Dec 17 2003
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:04 pm

mx107marlin wrote:
^Thanks, good info there...

My car will be on a full trailer too... do you think it affected your gas mileage much?


Doubt it changed it very much. I didn't have the box truck full but i would be willing to say with the amount of wind resistance at 65mph vs the impact of moving the trailer is very small in comparison.
SickWitIt

Joined: Aug 03 2006
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Location: Piqua, Ohio


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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:01 am

Kevin_S wrote:
In EVERY topic, you always try to put everyone else down and prove that you are some "higher" level than they are. Just accept someone else's viewpoint and learn to respect.

Get off that **** highhorse of yours...if that's too hard for you to do, then go the **** somewhere else.


I'm going to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th this notion.
Ryan88

Joined: Aug 09 2004
Posts: 3516
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:14 am

What I think is funny, diesel fuel is one of the first fuels rifined from crude oil. It takes more time and money to refine gas. I like how diesel is more than gas. Diesle should be cheaper than gas...
corvettecrazy

Joined: Dec 17 2003
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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:55 am

Ryan88 wrote:
What I think is funny, diesel fuel is one of the first fuels rifined from crude oil. It takes more time and money to refine gas. I like how diesel is more than gas. Diesle should be cheaper than gas...


but the demand is less.

basic supply and demand drives the price to where it is.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
Posts: 4407


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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:01 am

SickWitIt wrote:
Kevin_S wrote:
In EVERY topic, you always try to put everyone else down and prove that you are some "higher" level than they are. Just accept someone else's viewpoint and learn to respect.

Get off that **** highhorse of yours...if that's too hard for you to do, then go the **** somewhere else.


I'm going to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th this notion.


WAH, WAH. I'm terribly hurt by these comments and I might be inconvenience until I get to the bottom of the page. I honestly don't care if someone doesn't like me on an online forum.
mx107marlin

Joined: Aug 12 2007
Posts: 3095
Location: Fairborn, OH


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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:41 am

Alright guys, quit bickering...

If anyone else has any thoughts on the Original question, by all means post them..

Even more importantly, if anyone has rented from Penske.... ever.. lmk

I wanna see what kind of mileage their trucks get and what kind of condition they're in... as well as if they're turbo-diesel or not...
lunasea

Joined: May 11 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada ish...


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Post Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:21 pm

Prodigy - Diesel Power

Mmm yea

why do you think big tractor units (semi's) are diesel because there torquey pulling machines
same with fire trucks they use them cause they get the job done.

and besides which you can make bio diesel so thats another plus.
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