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Better Quality Oznium LED STRIPS

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olverafam

Joined: Feb 05 2010
Posts: 237
Location: PORTLAND to SALT LAKE CITY


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Post Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:53 pm

I was wondering If anyone has used other led strips from Oznium that are a lot better in quality and reliablility. I am only asking because I have audi style Leds on a couple of my cars but for some reason I have the worst luck with the side emitting led strips, I think Im on my 7th or 8th replacement and sometimes they are faulty right out of the package with flashing/non-working LEDS and I get them installed by a professional.

I have tried myself but it gets really frustrating when you find out you only have one or two non-working leds, anyways have any of you used any other oznium strips for the headlights other than the side emitting ones? Thanks all.
kornholio788

Joined: May 02 2005
Posts: 9748
Location: Tosa, WI


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Post Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:24 pm

The normal led strips suck too. I have a 3 leds out on one strip in my tails. And they are in tinted tails, car is kept in a garage, and is driven maby once a week. Still failed. And it isn't something I can just replace and take out. So I am ****.

Also in on looking for higher quality led strips. I'd pay more for higher quality ones I know won't fail.
Aken

Joined: Feb 12 2003
Posts: 10885


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Post Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:27 pm

The ribbon LED strips are probably the best when it comes to failure rates, just because of the way they're designed. The standard flexible strips have too many small solder points and tiny wires inside which is what promotes failure (only one on my motorcycle has any LEDs out, though).

Unfortunately LEDs are a fickle thing - can't really guarantee that it'll be 100% fine. I'm sure we all own lights somewhere that we've had nothing but success on, yet others have had situations like this guy where he's needed multiple replacements. Just the luck of the draw. The best thing you can do is build your projects using the best product for that application, and build it as well as possible.
ChevyCaprice9C1

Joined: Jan 18 2008
Posts: 2239
Location: trenton ohio


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Post Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:20 pm

i mean i have the regular flexible led strips all over my caprice and i have only had one issue with them they have been 99 percent reliable for me the ones under my car for back up light have been on there for two years now without a issue.
bad venge

Joined: Jul 28 2007
Posts: 3550


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Post Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:10 pm

I had better luck with the streetglow side emitting
Tdawgthegreatest

Joined: Jul 22 2007
Posts: 5093
Location: Florence, Oregon


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Post Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:44 pm

I've never had problems with any Oznium Products I've bought.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
Posts: 4407


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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:43 am

Aken wrote:
The ribbon LED strips are probably the best when it comes to failure rates, just because of the way they're designed. The standard flexible strips have too many small solder points and tiny wires inside which is what promotes failure (only one on my motorcycle has any LEDs out, though).

Unfortunately LEDs are a fickle thing - can't really guarantee that it'll be 100% fine. I'm sure we all own lights somewhere that we've had nothing but success on, yet others have had situations like this guy where he's needed multiple replacements. Just the luck of the draw. The best thing you can do is build your projects using the best product for that application, and build it as well as possible.

The problem is cold solder joints on flexible board. I solder stuff onto circuit boards all the time for work and know what a good/bad solder joint looks like. The joints on Oznium's flex strips, side emitting strips, and dome lights (I can't for other products) are terrible.

I would also rather pay more for a better quality product.
Bobby Lee

Joined: Mar 01 2003
Posts: 3881


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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:39 am

Hmmm... there seems to be a trend here. I haven't had any overly blatant failures when it comes to LED products from Oznium myself, but I have heard from time to time and plenty of different sources these very same complaints. By my estimations, these problems began their incline around the time that Oznium began contracting / sourcing directly with the factory. I certainly am not one to judge, but I would like to hear from Phil or some other respectable rep. as to how much Quality Control is being performed either by employees here in the states, or the factories themselves. Don't get me wrong, I've been a loyal customer for many years (since 2003), but I do understand that sometimes businesses can become a bit complacent. In most cases it just takes a little kick in the butt from the truely appreciative customers get over sights such as these fixed.
Chris

Joined: Sep 27 2004
Posts: 2395
Location: NY


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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:51 pm

We need Phil to stop vacationing and rework some of his products. icon_lol.gif
kornholio788

Joined: May 02 2005
Posts: 9748
Location: Tosa, WI


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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:38 pm

Bobby Lee wrote:
Hmmm... there seems to be a trend here. I haven't had any overly blatant failures when it comes to LED products from Oznium myself, .


Umm your scion 3rd brake light had at least half to 3/4 of the leds out.
Bobby Lee

Joined: Mar 01 2003
Posts: 3881


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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:46 pm

kornholio788 wrote:
Umm your scion 3rd brake light had at least half to 3/4 of the leds out.


You are correct. It is also one of the very first made. My point in that statement is that in comparison to the number of Oznium products I own, the number of defects has been quite small.
Tdawgthegreatest

Joined: Jul 22 2007
Posts: 5093
Location: Florence, Oregon


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Post Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:35 pm

The only thing I can think of that was defective was the switch on one of my millioncolor controllers broke. Which wasn't ozniums fault. I guess i've been lucky none of my products have been defective.

So I'm not really any good in this convo of quality control and ****.
Phil
Owner, Oznium.com

Joined: Feb 11 2003
Posts: 7721


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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:35 am

Thanks for the questions, and good points guys.

I see an inherent issue with the design of these flexible circuits, especially when they are exposed to such environmental extremes, like baking in the hot sun under the headlights or being subjected to the extreme winter cold. Another issue is that there isn't much room to work with in the space just under the headlight, so the strip has to be very small and, thus, is quite fragile.

I'm in the warehouse now for about a month, working like crazy on a big round of improvements to cut shipping mistakes, and I'll post a video about all the cool improvements a bit later.

I've got my eye on key data about product defects and will work to bring the percentage down soon. Overall, the percentage is quite low, but yes, there are a few products that are experiencing more defects.

It's peculiar that sometimes things are a result of customer error, probably more often than we think. For example, a customer orders two blue strips and says neither of them lights up. That doesn't make sense to me, so I have him send them back. I test, and they light up just fine. Although, 99% of the time, we just honor the customer's word and ship a replacement.

There are a ton of sticky issues with high, defect-rate products. They can be worked through, but sometimes we have to pick our battles. It might not make sense to spend tens of thousands of dollars on certain things.

Thinking out loud here:
What if the defect rate is really high, at 10%, and it's really popular, but the factory can't figure out a way to make it more reliable? Do we drop $20k on a local engineer to create something, a prototype, test with a vibration simulator, heat/cold simulator, etc.? Unless we're doing a certain volume of sales for this product, it probably doesn't pay. So we might just have to accept a certain defect rate and send replacements with a smile.

What if the product is going along smoothly for years and then all of a sudden, a strange defect pops up, but we can't pinpoint exactly when it happened and can't figure out what is causing the defect? Maybe the factory is lying about something (China can be shady.) But, meanwhile we've got 10,000 pieces of this defect batch, and most customers are really happy with the product, but there are a few items that, depending on how they are hooked up, might not work right. Do we pull the entire inventory of this product off the shelf until the problem is sorted out? We'll then have lost out on sales and made customers angry, since they can't then order.

I've seen a lot of strange things happen in China and have come to expect anything and everything by now. What if the factory makes a wrong batch of a certain color that has the polarity reversed? It isn't a major problem for the product, since the customer can just flip the polarity, and it'll work. Do we send everything back to the factory to have them re-do it--and then be out of stock of that product for a month? Or, do we continue to sell it with reversed polarity, causing some confusion for the customer?

Is the solution manufacturing in a different country? Remember Iceled . . . Made in the UK by highly-paid technicians with health insurance, benefits, etc. The stuff is quite expensive and honestly has just as many defects as the FlowLighting stuff made in China. Maybe this is because the Iceled is so much more complex, with more components to go wrong. I've got a huge box sitting here labeled "defective Iceled."

I don't think there's any easy solution. I'm implementing a bar-coding tracking system that will allow us to keep track of which batches/factory orders the products come from. But this doesn't really prevent the defects; it just lets us track which batch they are from and then go back and complain.

More rigorous quality control at the factory would be nice, but I'm doubtful whether the factory will adhere to it. The Scion tC Full Third Brake Lights for example . . .The wiring plug that is used has a tendency to have the 2 power pins inside of it get pushed back, thus, not being able to make a connection with the mating plug. It's a simple thing for the customer to pull these pins with pliers or just hardwire/splice. But for some, this can be a daunting task when they just want plug and play. I've sent the factory a mating plug that I've instructed the factory employees to hook up to a power source to test each brake light (at the factory) in order to make sure the plugs are all legit. But, still receiving defective ones...

I tell a factory to bag things individually in plastic bags. They do it with most orders, but then all of a sudden, one order isn't individually bagged. I spend a few hundred on bags and a few days of labor costs to bag them ourselves at the warehouse. I explain to the factory that I NEED them bagged, and it goes smoothly for a while. All of a sudden, though, we receive another order that isn't bagged.

Here's a weird one: After about a year, certain tubes would develop a crystalline structure inside that would grow and eventually make the tube frosty. How exactly do we pinpoint the problem and deal with China on that one?

Even if we do QC here at the warehouse, we'd need a full-time person (with quite a bit of engineering knowledge) to follow up with the factories and oversee thousands of details. Rough numbers here, but let's say annually, this person costs us 45K, and we figure our defects cost us 20K. Having this person cuts our defect cost in half, down to 10K. Is it worth the additional salary?

Devil's advocate: What if sending out a wrong or a defective product could actually be BENEFICIAL to Oznium, because it could let us shine in our customer-service area, showing how quickly we fix issues. If we always sent out 100% perfect stuff, the customer might not remember us as well. A lot of the customer reviews/praise we get comes after a minor problem that has been fixed really well. You don't remember the restaurant that served you good shrimp scampi from three years ago. But, you'll certainly remember the restaurant that dropped the hot fudge sundae on your lap, paid for your whole meal, and even gave you two, free movie theater tickets as a good gesture. And, you'll probably tell all your friends about how good the customer service was at that restaurant.

Oznium had a bad lightning storm knock out pretty much all of our electronic devices a few weeks ago, and it meant a few orders didn't go out in time. One customer's order went out a day late, and he was really upset. We ended up refunding the whole thing, telling him to keep the item anyway, and had $36 worth of flowers delivered to him as a kind gesture.

Slowly working out all these issues, picking our battles, and, I hope, doing the right thing.

Anyhoo, thanks for bringing it up.
BLAZER_97

Joined: Apr 10 2007
Posts: 1565
Location: Decatur TX


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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:55 am

I love you phil. icon_smile.gif
bad venge

Joined: Jul 28 2007
Posts: 3550


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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:03 am

GROUP HUG ....

Phil there are tons of folks on here that would be happy to check out/ test new products
I have two degree's in Electrical and Electronic engineering...
A little free product for testing might be far better then adding a salary
Bobby Lee

Joined: Mar 01 2003
Posts: 3881


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Post Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:47 am

bad venge wrote:
Phil there are tons of folks on here that would be happy to check out/ test new products
I have two degree's in Electrical and Electronic engineering...
A little free product for testing might be far better then adding a salary


I totally agree with this. Many would look at it as a hand out. But I think if you chose the testing individuals yourself, based off of past product useage and general knowledge of lighting products, you may just receive some extremely valuable feed back prior to actually debuting a product. Giving these individuals some time to actually put the product through its paces (shock, weather, vibration, etc.) and just generally abusing it, should give you the data you're looking for.
02BlueStang

Joined: Dec 13 2004
Posts: 4757


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Post Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:00 pm

my flex strips under my dash and rear seats all have LED's that are out....my passenger side has quite a few...but the lighting affect is still achieved and I'm happy.

Lights are made to burn out...I can see it being more of a problem with visible LED lighting like the Audi style headlights etc.

I have always been happy with Oznium and the product sold icon_cool.gif
wolf36

Joined: Feb 26 2010
Posts: 96
Location: San Bernardino, CA


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Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:28 pm

Thats why i buy loose LEDs, and surface mount. I solder my own LED strips and circuit boards. I have only had a couple go out that I bought elsewhere. My oznium LEDS have been going strong for 2 years, 100% still working. DIY


I have ordered in bulk from china as well, had LEDs with the polarity reversed, or they give conflicting specs, like a superflux with a 100 ma draw and it also states a 80 ma draw???
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
Posts: 4407


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Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:59 pm

wolf36 wrote:
I have ordered in bulk from china as well, had LEDs with the polarity reversed, or they give conflicting specs, like a superflux with a 100 ma draw and it also states a 80 ma draw???

That's prolly a voltage problem. LED current draw goes up exponentially once you go past ideal voltage (that's how ideal voltage is determined). Take them and find some data point of current vs voltage to find the best voltage.
Chris

Joined: Sep 27 2004
Posts: 2395
Location: NY


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Post Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:22 am

I'm old school. My cathodes in my room that I turn on almost everyday for the past 4/5 years work awesome!
BLAZER_97

Joined: Apr 10 2007
Posts: 1565
Location: Decatur TX


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Post Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:13 pm

Chris wrote:
I'm old school. My cathodes in my room that I turn on almost everyday for the past 4/5 years work awesome!

Same here, i have cathodes on thr roof of the blazer for 4 years and i have a huge system that vibrates it and shakes the hell out of them, ans still going strong!!
scionlarry

Joined: Aug 27 2010
Posts: 6


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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:35 pm

Oznium product SUCK! The LED strips I bought were replaced once and are doing the same thing. 3 LEDs go out in a row and the rest fades and flickers. I think we all need to get together and find an Attorney. NOBODY should be allowed to sell Faulty products.
LETS DO THIS!
justinwebb

Joined: Sep 15 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Columbus, OH


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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:58 pm

^^^^ you are never supposed to go full retard
Blazin'88Buick

Joined: Jun 11 2006
Posts: 117


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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:16 pm

I am with Blazer 97. I have cathodes that are probably around four years old and still going strong and I also have a system. Plus I have some side emitting strips that are about four months old and haven't had a problem. I'm sure we've all had some faulty products from time to time but nothing to get Attourneys involved. Someone needs to take a chill pill.
olverafam

Joined: Feb 05 2010
Posts: 237
Location: PORTLAND to SALT LAKE CITY


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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:46 pm

scionlarry wrote:
Oznium product SUCK! The LED strips I bought were replaced once and are doing the same thing. 3 LEDs go out in a row and the rest fades and flickers. I think we all need to get together and find an Attorney. NOBODY should be allowed to sell Faulty products.
LETS DO THIS!


No dude, Get an attorney? Why Over a petty amount of money? How much money are you out on with oznium? The ONLY things I have had problems with is the cool white side emitting LED Strips and I've had quit a few replacements but phil already let us know that there was a problem with the cool white batch and they have ALWAYS honored the warranty they offer but the rest of their stuff is primo ****. I have since given up on the cool white strips but they sent me a set of red ones at no extra charge and those have been working fine. I think you're just trying to be a ****.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
Posts: 4407


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:35 am

scionlarry wrote:
Oznium product SUCK! The LED strips I bought were replaced once and are doing the same thing. 3 LEDs go out in a row and the rest fades and flickers. I think we all need to get together and find an Attorney. NOBODY should be allowed to sell Faulty products.
LETS DO THIS!

Yeah man, CHILL OUT!!! Contact Oznium and they will either replace the strips again or I bet they would even refund your money. You're not out anything.
scionlarry

Joined: Aug 27 2010
Posts: 6


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:33 am

They have replaced these things once and they dont want to repoace them again nor do they want to admit to selling poor quality equiptment. I am bringing a ligitimate problem to the forum here and there is no need to be childish and call names or should I say "write" names.
kornholio788

Joined: May 02 2005
Posts: 9748
Location: Tosa, WI


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:55 am

Alright. Now I will step in. Scionlarry.

1. When did you purchase the leds?
2. Did you email them immediately each time they went out?
3. Did you do anything to the leds to void the warranty(ie cut them, modify them in any way, mount them in extreme temps)
4. What was their reasons for not wanting to send more to you?

I have been a member of this forum and been buying from this store for many years. I also helped with different things on this site and know the owner personally. There is a lot more to your story that you are not telling. As things do not add up at all.

If you are truly having this much of a problem I can promise as long as you are within your 1 year warranty that things will be replaced or your money refunded. Get in contact with a customer service employee from the store and POLITELY state your case. Oznium is all about customer service. Everyone here knows that as we have seen the things that Phil(owner) and his employees do to make sure his customers are happy. There are some problems with the leds yes. Then talk to them and work something out. Coming on the forum and making multiple posts about how this site is a rip off and we need a lawyer is completely ridiculous and the complete wrong way to go about things.
PwrRngr

Joined: Jul 19 2007
Posts: 4407


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:08 pm

scionlarry wrote:
They have replaced these things once and they dont want to repoace them again nor do they want to admit to selling poor quality equiptment. I am bringing a ligitimate problem to the forum here and there is no need to be childish and call names or should I say "write" names.

I HIGHLY doubt they're not willing to replace the product (unless you did something to them). I've had the same LED strips replaced 3 or 4 times w/out questions.
Phil
Owner, Oznium.com

Joined: Feb 11 2003
Posts: 7721


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:13 pm

scionlarry wrote:
They have replaced these things once and they dont want to repoace them again nor do they want to admit to selling poor quality equiptment.


Laurence,

You originally purchased 6 x 19" blue strips on Feb 23, 2009. Our 1 year "no questions asked" warranty period has passed. Its now about 18 months after your original purchase date.

Ok, I admit it, these are cheap LED strips from China. Most of the time they work perfect. I'll let the other 100+ mostly positive customer reviews of this product speak for themselves icon_cool.gif

We're certainly capable of engineering / manufacturing LED strips in Switzerland (or another high quality country), but then of course the product would be a ton more expensive and only have marginally better quality. The market doesn't really support that.

You've posted two negative reviews on the product page here: https://www.oznium.com/flexible-led-strips/led-flex-strips

I've consolidated your two reviews (1 week apart) into a single review.

"This writting probably wont even make it to the web site."

The thought of censoring a review doesn't even cross my mind...

I find your cynicism interesting in that this is the first thing you think of. It seems to me that if you were running a business, you would censor reviews. icon_confused.gif

Anyhoo, I'll propose two options, you just let me know if something sounds reasonable:

1) Refund half the cost of the strips (18 months later!): $113.94 / 2 = $56.97

2) Offer 50% off a different product. And in this case since they are going under your dash, and don't need to be flexed, the 10 inch Piranha bars are a great choice. The rigid circuit board is not prone to cold solder joints from heat/cold changes.

Laurence, we're NOT CHEATS, haha! Quite the opposite icon_smile.gif We're real people just like you. I used to drive a Scion just like you, and am from the Bay Area just like you. If there's an issue, you've got my cell which you can call or text: 925-683-1839

A few more random thoughts:
Laurence left some comments in his original order, "PLEASE LEAVE THE PACKAGE WITH ROOMMATE OR ON PORCH OUT OF THE RAIN. THANK YOU"
All CAPS aside... I don't really see how its possible to convey this information to the post man who delivers the package. We could certainly write it on the package, but I really doubt they'd pay attention to it. I think that the post man is just used to doing whatever he does. Whether its putting the envelope in the mailbox, or leaving a note, etc. Of course if we were physically delivering it, we could have control, but we aren't delivering it. Whats everyone's thoughts on special delivery requests like this? Should we ignore, or do something different?

Our policy now is for 365 day returns & warranty. And if the customer is nice, we'll be lenient for a few months after. Its actually quite rare for a customer to come back to us with a warranty replacement request after 1 year. Considering its so rare, and considering most customers are honest, maybe we should have a 365 day written policy, but a pretty much indefinite "un-written policy" to WOW the customer and take care of them even 24, 36, etc months later. What do you guys think?


justinwebb

Joined: Sep 15 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Columbus, OH


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:51 pm

scionlarry wrote:
They have replaced these things once and they dont want to repoace them again nor do they want to admit to selling poor quality equiptment. I am bringing a ligitimate problem to the forum here and there is no need to be childish and call names or should I say "write" names.

at least I can "write" correctly
Tim

Joined: Nov 16 2003
Posts: 10795
Location: Kalamazoo, MI


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:03 pm

**** them Phil.

Don't refund him ****.
Phil
Owner, Oznium.com

Joined: Feb 11 2003
Posts: 7721


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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm

We get quite a bit of praise here. Examples of comments people have put in orders over the last few days:

--
you guys rock i will buy over and over from you your customer service is bar-none!!! smp 3000 loves you!!!

you guys are AMAZING

You guys rock! Thanks for being online

You guys rock!

u guys rock!!!

I hear you are awesome. I am anxious to see the product! :D

will be ordering more stuff again soon! thanks for the awesome customer service and awesome products!

I showed my car off in a car show and everyone is all intrested in where i got my lights and how to put them. Im sending everyone here and doing all there installs because how awesome the lights this company makes. Best around by far.

you guys have a awesome product and i have already recommended it to a bunch of my friends

You guys are absolutely great! Your pricing is absolutely amazing, and your warranty/guarentee on your products is awesome!

----

Laurence himself even sent us an email last June after sending warranty replacements with no-questions asked: "Dear Danny, I can't thank you enough. If there is anything I can ever do for you please ask."
02BlueStang

Joined: Dec 13 2004
Posts: 4757


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Post Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:31 pm

justinwebb wrote:
^^^^ you are never supposed to go full retard


sorry, I lol'd at that icon_lol.gif

I understand your frustration in wanting a product to be everything you think it should be. Maybe you should re-design it Laurence and figure out the real world costs of something.

As Phil said, lights are warrantied for 1 year, which is quite longer than most auto parts stores or manufacturers will warranty a product (usually 90 days from date of purchase). I suggest going with something more rigid for your application. I have Flex strips under my dash and rear seats that have 1 to 5 leds out, but I also have slim LED bars under my bed rails and an inferno V1 and extra tube in the truck...which have been abused and still work just as great as the day I got them.

I am quite shocked that Phil would go above and beyond to refund you even a partial amount of your purchase.

Judging by your posts and character I would assume you are under 18 years of age....hint for the real world, just because someone says something is supposed to do something; doesn't mean it always does what they say. Lucky for you Phil runs a reputable business and is concerned about the feedback of his customers.
Phil
Owner, Oznium.com

Joined: Feb 11 2003
Posts: 7721


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Post Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:01 pm

Laurence and I spoke briefly this morning, and I offered to just ship him six Piranha Bars 10" free of charge. Shipped out today and will arrive Thursday or Friday.
Laurence, let me know if you'd like to retract or modify your negative review on the Flex Strip product.
Photos of the packaging process:
devthedevastator

Joined: Oct 08 2009
Posts: 52


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Post Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:04 pm

I'm still showing my friends the photos that are taken now during shipping....so freakin cool.
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