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and to court we go

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pvtgrif

Joined: Jul 26 2005
Posts: 53


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:46 am

So I was driving along yesterday with my brother on a large empty stretch of road, when all of a sudden he yells, "cop!" I see the cop and since I'm doing about 65 in a 45 I nearly slam on my breaks. Now I have a radar detector and it didn't go off until the cop was about 100 feet away from me (while I was rapidly decellerating). So she pulls me over and I throw the radar under my seat and retract my dvd screen and act as polite as humanly possible. I do the whole, "yes, I'm an idiot and I'm very sorry" thing and wait for her to come back. She hands me a $200 ticket for doing 65 in a 45 and walks off.

Now the issue here isn't the $200, I'll pay that, whatever. But the real problem is the insurance hike. A ticket like this can drive your insurance up 25% over the next 3 years, which means this ticket ends up costing me about $2300. So as soon as I found this out, I determined to fight this thing in court.

Now it would appear that I'm totally ****, seeing as how there's no real excuse for what I did. However, on the ticket the "Radar" and "Estimaited" boxes are checked, with a circled M next to radar. What this makes me think is that she did what most cops do: you see someone speeding so you wait till they're close to you then flip on your radar at the last second. The issue I have with this is that there's no way I was going 65 when she turned on her radar, I was going 50 at most.

So that's my situation, I'm already looking into strategies for fighting this in court, but any additional info would be really helpful, thanks.
stasis-

Joined: Jun 05 2004
Posts: 4517
Location: Texas!


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:52 am

don't waste the money to fight it. you slammed on your breaks, so that's basically admitting you knew you were speeding horribly..you mighta gotten off if you would of eased into it instead of slamming them. anyways, her radar said 65..good luck with getting off without pulling an OJ icon_rolleyes.gif
Squeak

Joined: Mar 20 2005
Posts: 206


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:57 am

Yea, a cop friend of mine said when he sees the nose of the car dip, he knows they are/were speeding and are braking now.
jol102001

Joined: Feb 12 2004
Posts: 5815
Location: Lake Charles, LA -- USA


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:02 am

pvtgrif wrote:
But the real problem is the insurance hike. A ticket like this can drive your insurance up 25% over the next 3 years, which means this ticket ends up costing me about $2300.


you know what.... i've had two fixed tickets and two other tickets that i've paid for (state and city police) and my insurance NEVER went up. I don't know if its just my company or what, but i'm with State Farm.
p8ntballah413

Joined: Jul 22 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Wilbraham Ma


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:05 pm

i got a ticket in mass on 91 N going 85 in a 65, a 245 dollar ticket, insurance never went up, thank god, b.c mass is the only state that doesnt allow insurnace companies to compete on rates, i pay 2100 a year, lowest step i can be, on my own car, and im 20. god i wished in CT or NH were u pay like 500 a year, thats great, so whenever u wanna complain, just be thankful u dont live in mass
josh9015

Joined: Sep 05 2003
Posts: 2256
Location: Melbourne, Florida


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:53 pm

I've got so many tickets and my insurance hasn't gone up at all. I have geico
AREA 51

Joined: Sep 25 2004
Posts: 667
Location: Kenosha, WI


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:50 pm

I dont know this to be a fact or not but to my knowledge the insurance wont go up unless you open your trap and report it. once you have a policy active they dont update the info without cause in doing so. I dont know if accidents cause an update to your record or not but your insurance may not go up but, if you change insurance a new record will be pulled and it will cost you. I remember getting tickets in Utah and Nebraska driving into Illinois from Califonia when I moved and my insurance never changed. They simply rotated off my record with time but, I didnt change my policy or have an accident either. May be worth checking but dont open your mouth and give yourself away and you might be ok....I dont know that for fact though?
pvtgrif

Joined: Jul 26 2005
Posts: 53


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Post Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:36 pm

i've heard a lot of different things regarding the insurance hike, i guess the only way to be sure is to ask the insurance company without inciminating myself. i suppose if there's no increase i'll be inclined to just pay it, but even if i go to court and loose, $25 in court fees isn't much compared to $200. It just bothers me because that's money that could be better spent on things like more LCD screens for my car, heh.

I feel like buying one of those $1000 radar blocking systems, but I really don't know if that's worth it.
Brandon

Joined: Jun 04 2003
Posts: 4189
Location: St. Louis, MO


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Post Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:49 am

get a lawyer. Most GOOD lawyers can get it thrown off your record.. get supervsision, etc. I've dont it a number of times. i've even had supervisions stacked! I love my lawyer icon_biggrin.gif
Rags

Joined: Apr 21 2005
Posts: 3527
Location: dayton


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Post Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:28 pm

insurance wont go up unless its added points to your record. usually your first speeding ticket will not bump it up, unless its like 90 in a 25. also if you fight it in court your gonna need more than that, court is alot different than most people believe. how old are you? cause if your a 16-22 year old male walking into court the judge is either going to side with the cop or some "punk ass kid" in his mind. i would say pay it. this once again goes to show radar detectors DONT work. and next time dont use the brakes. down shift.
Glowin97x

Joined: Mar 13 2004
Posts: 608
Location: Malibu, CA


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Post Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:06 pm

also most good lawyers charge > $300/hr (here in CA at least)
Rags

Joined: Apr 21 2005
Posts: 3527
Location: dayton


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Post Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:47 pm

lawyers usually get a retainer fee first.
GlowinPontiac

Joined: Mar 04 2004
Posts: 5959
Location: Central CT


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Post Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:50 pm

me and several friends have fought tickets in court and it didnt cost us anything. most of the time the cop who issued the ticket didnt show up and the case was dismissed. i mailed my ticket in marked that i wanted a court date and got a letter back saying it wasnt worth there time and the ticket was dropped. worst case is you get a "charitable donation" which is usually less than half of the original fine and wont go on your record.
jethawk

Joined: Jul 07 2004
Posts: 1242
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada


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Post Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:50 am

i know here in ontario... i have the right to see the radar gun.... im not sure about your state... but this is one way to acctually know if they got you or not...and how fast you were acctually going..
jol102001

Joined: Feb 12 2004
Posts: 5815
Location: Lake Charles, LA -- USA


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Post Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:54 am

jethawk wrote:
i know here in ontario... i have the right to see the radar gun.... im not sure about your state... but this is one way to acctually know if they got you or not...and how fast you were acctually going..


Down here, you should NEVER ask to see the gun.
Rags

Joined: Apr 21 2005
Posts: 3527
Location: dayton


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Post Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:54 pm

around here its usually a bad idea too. i tend to just run. so far i havent been caught yet and my blaze kit has been quite useful. and they must not have my plates either. i also have the ability to dodge down alleys and sidestreets and kill all the lights and do some quick moving. i wouldnt reccomend it. if they turn on your their lights your screwed, but up until they do, its fair game to run.
mccook8

Joined: Jun 01 2004
Posts: 744


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Post Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:09 pm

Rags wrote:
around here its usually a bad idea too. i tend to just run. so far i havent been caught yet and my blaze kit has been quite useful. and they must not have my plates either. i also have the ability to dodge down alleys and sidestreets and kill all the lights and do some quick moving. i wouldnt reccomend it. if they turn on your their lights your screwed, but up until they do, its fair game to run.


It's like this: if they turn on the lights, and you run, and they catch you, you're DEFINITELY going to jail. (and, depending on where you live, you might sustain a few dents and scratches......)

If they don't turn on the lights, and you run and hide, and they catch you, they're going to look REALLY hard for, and will probably find, a whole bunch of very expensive violations beyond what they were turning on you for.......
Rags

Joined: Apr 21 2005
Posts: 3527
Location: dayton


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Post Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:46 pm

only if they have a plate number. and cops around here are lazy. me hiding means pulling into a friends driveway, stopping and getting gas, or turning off my lights when i go around a courner. its not really running i guess as it can be called....um parking. cops typically arent going to get into a confrontation while you are parked somewhere or getting out of a vehicle. the other night one saw my lights and started following me around 50 feet back. i knew he was following me because he ran a red light and followed into a no outlet. then while he was turning around at the end i went up the street and stopped at the gas station and watched him drive past and do a u turn 4 times. it was 2 am and he had nothing else better to do, but then he left so i stopped "getting gas" and went the other way with a different ub color on. i havent seen him since.
mccook8

Joined: Jun 01 2004
Posts: 744


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Post Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:54 pm

^^^^ you were lucky.

He obviously wasn't sure, and wasn't even sure enough to try to bluff his way through. I've done that before, and gotten admissions.

....but when you drive past a suspect several times, "thinking about it", you know damn well you don't have anything......

You want to beware another trick of mine, though, because I doubt I'm the only one:

If I think somebody's playing possum like you just described, I'll drive past and get their plate number, then VISIBLY drive away. As soon as I'm out of sight, I double back, around the block, and come in dark from an unexpected direction.....and sit and watch, often with binoculars.
Rags

Joined: Apr 21 2005
Posts: 3527
Location: dayton


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Post Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:54 am

see i think he tried it but the gas station was on the other side of a 4 lane road. but this trick has worked so far 3 times for me. usually all i have to do is park somewhere and turn off my lights. 2 of the times the officer would go by a few times, the other he just gave up after i turned. but completely true about running. its not the best option, but i like how you describe this method as playing possum.
pvtgrif

Joined: Jul 26 2005
Posts: 53


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Post Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:06 pm

every time i get pulled over, for about a split second i think, "i'm gonna floor it and i'll never get caught" but most times i can talk my way out of whatever i get pulled over for and the risk of getting arrested for running from the cops just seems too big. good luck with your escaping from the cops though.
02BlueStang

Joined: Dec 13 2004
Posts: 4757


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Post Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:57 pm

easiest way to get out of a ticket...Become a cop icon_razz.gif
mccook8

Joined: Jun 01 2004
Posts: 744


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Post Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:55 pm

02BlueStang wrote:
easiest way to get out of a ticket...Become a cop icon_razz.gif


Agreed. (but not for the reason you're thinking)

My experience is not so much about "professional courtesy" as it is about knowing why cops write tickets, specifically under what circumstances.

if you:

1. don't speed TOO much (more than 8 or 9 mph over)
2. be polite and cooperative
3. take responsibility for screwing up
4. make the officer feel safe (hands on the steering wheel, dome light on)

you'll probably end up with just a warning, unless you're a frequent flier
TheBrick

Joined: Oct 07 2003
Posts: 4140
Location: Niagara Falls, Canada


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Post Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:05 pm

i usually do about 10-15 over and have passed a few cops they didnt do anything. (YET) haha.
jethawk

Joined: Jul 07 2004
Posts: 1242
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada


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Post Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:24 pm

if its 10-15 over in KM then its usually fine... 15 tends to be the highest they'll go in lower speed zones like 50 zones...but higher speedzones like 80's and 100's they'll usually let you go upto 19 over....from my experience..
GlowinPontiac

Joined: Mar 04 2004
Posts: 5959
Location: Central CT


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Post Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:05 pm

i would love to see a cop get pulled over for speeding. the cops in my town fly around all the time at around 15-20 over on the back roads. they must not be the greatest drivers either because there cars are always at the garage with cracked bumpers and dented fenders. I think they just go out into the state forest and drift the cars or somethng because if you see a cop in there theyre always going about 45 on the 20 mph dirt road. icon_cool.gif
silentalero

Joined: Feb 12 2003
Posts: 1047


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Post Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:41 pm

/\ ditto chicago cops are known for never waiting at red lights and never obeying any local traffic laws, they flip the lights on fly past n shut em off its pathetic. One of these days im tempted to blow the same light they do and say well you werent on a call and you did it so i figured there was some law you didnt have to follow since you went normal driving right after the light. But i can see that leading to trouble.

With the ticket here is my recommendation to avoid the insurance hike, always always always goto court, and plead not guilty. Now i dont know how your court system works but here in chicago the DA (District Attourney) will walk you outside the courtroom and attempt to make a plea bargan, its a guilty plea and a lesser fine and doesnt go on your record (basicly the village/citys) way of collecting their money. It doesnt go on your record but they keep those records so if you ever go back, be careful.

Or ask the judge for supervision or traffic school. There are ways out of it other than full fine and full punishment. Im sure Mccook can chime in a lil better seeing as he is teh law round these parts icon_smile.gif
jol102001

Joined: Feb 12 2004
Posts: 5815
Location: Lake Charles, LA -- USA


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Post Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:40 am

silentalero wrote:
/\ ditto chicago cops are known for never waiting at red lights and never obeying any local traffic laws, they flip the lights on fly past n shut em off its pathetic. One of these days im tempted to blow the same light they do and say well you werent on a call and you did it so i figured there was some law you didnt have to follow since you went normal driving right after the light. But i can see that leading to trouble.



yeah, doing that would get you into some trouble... however, if you get him on video .. and send it in..
taylor192

Joined: Dec 08 2004
Posts: 277


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Post Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:40 am

Call one of the "ex-copper" type former police officer agencies. They can work wonders
Mav

Joined: Nov 26 2003
Posts: 2675
Location: So Cal


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Post Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:03 pm

Fighting tickets in court: Next to impossible to win. You have to remember that if you lose and pay money, that money is going to help pay for the judge and the cops, and the more they get in, the more likely there will be enough money in the next year's budget for good pay increases. It's not beneficial to let you off, so the ball is already leaning towards you are guilty. The only way I usually see people get out of tickets is if you show up and the officer doesn't. Then it's an automatic win for you as there is nobody to defend your case.

If the cop shows up, you usually have the opportunity to change your plea before you contest it (after they do role call). They will call you up and ask you if you wish to continue fighting it or do you wish to plea guilty. At that point, you can choose to plea guilty, and if you were eligable to go to traffic school before, you still are. If you decide to fight it, you wave your right to traffic school, meaning if you lose, it's on your record.

As for getting tickets and not getting insurance hikes, it depends on a few things.

One, it depends on the type of ticket. Parking tickets will not give you increased insurance rates. Moving violations however will. Noise polution tickets won't give you increased insurance. So it all depends on the type.

In addition, some insurance companies have special deals for those who have been with their company for a certain period of time. For example, with my company, Because of the length of time I've been with them, my first ticket on my record is ignored. Even if it was speeding going 40mph above the speed limit.. it's wiped from my record as far as they are concerned for rates. Tickets also fall off of your record after 3 years. So as long as I don't have more than 1 ticket on my record in a 3 year period, I'm fine. You figure combine 1 ticket every 3 years for free, 2 tickets per 3 years that you can traffic school out of... you can get up to 3 tickets every 3 years and still not have increased insurance (as far as the traffic school, I believe it's now 18 months between traffic schools to keep eligable. If you get a ticket and go to traffic school, and get a ticket 3 months later, you won't be eligable for a second going to the traffic school.

Hope that helped =)
stasis-

Joined: Jun 05 2004
Posts: 4517
Location: Texas!


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Post Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:11 pm

[quote="jol102001"]
silentalero wrote:
/\ ditto chicago cops are known for never waiting at red lights and never obeying any local traffic laws, they flip the lights on fly past n shut em off its pathetic. One of these days im tempted to blow the same light they do and say well you werent on a call and you did it so i figured there was some law you didnt have to follow since you went normal driving right after the light. But i can see that leading to trouble.



um you realize thats not exactly the issue. they used to turn on the lights and blow by as fast as they could to get to the place they needed to be. due to court cases, not the case anymore. they are usually issued an order to get there as fast as possible while staying safe, ie using lights to cross red lights, without using sirens to make a big scene. at least get it straight icon_rolleyes.gif
jol102001

Joined: Feb 12 2004
Posts: 5815
Location: Lake Charles, LA -- USA


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Post Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:04 pm

Also, fighting tickets in court are hard and really not worth it. If the cop is there the judge pretty much knows he's not gonna lie, b/c he took an oath and will always side with the cop on the story. I've also heard of an instance that a 16 year old boy was trying to fight a speeding ticket(i think 15 over) and it wasn't a good day for the judge and he threw the book at him, revoking his license till he was 18.
pvtgrif

Joined: Jul 26 2005
Posts: 53


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Post Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:08 pm

they're cops, they can do just about whatever they want. if they blow through some reds to get to dunkin' donuts faster, no one's gonna be able to do anything about it.

as for the ticket though, i'm hoping either the cop won't show up, or i'll be able to plea bargain. however, i've heard from a few people that if you ask the cop to show documentation that the radar was calibrated (if radar was used to catch you) and they don't have it on them, the case is thrown out as they have no evidence.

this probably won't happen for a while though, i see the magistrate in a few months, then even if i loose, i can appeal and see a real judge in as many as 6-8 months from then. i might not have to deal with this for a year.
Mav

Joined: Nov 26 2003
Posts: 2675
Location: So Cal


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Post Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:46 am

At least out here, cops standard bring the radar records with them if they got you on radar. It's a standarad procedure. So unless he forgot them at his house that day, he'll probably be prepared as you are probably the 50 billionth person he's written a ticket for, for speeding being caught on a radar gun, and who decided to fight it in court.
RettaSql

Joined: Jun 12 2005
Posts: 138
Location: Beaver Dam wiscompton


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Post Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:48 am

Ive only gotten one ticket, Unreasonable and Imprudent speed. Insurance didnt go up from what i could tell.
clean95SL

Joined: Sep 19 2005
Posts: 19


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Post Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:17 am

Been driving for 2 and a half years......never gotten a ticket and have been pulled over ALOT!

Basically I treat cops with respect and try to explain to them Im sorry and I cant afford a ticket.
mccook8

Joined: Jun 01 2004
Posts: 744


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Post Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:45 am

pvtgrif wrote:
as for the ticket though, i'm hoping either the cop won't show up, or i'll be able to plea bargain. however, i've heard from a few people that if you ask the cop to show documentation that the radar was calibrated (if radar was used to catch you) and they don't have it on them, the case is thrown out as they have no evidence.


On those rare occasions when

a) I actually even WRITE a speeding ticket

and

b) Somebody actually decides to FIGHT a speeding ticket


I always stop by the station and pick up the file folder that contains the maintenance records for the radar unit in my patrol car, and the "officer's copy" of the ticket (which has, on the back, my notes regarding the tracking history for that particular stop).

And then I go to court.
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