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help? need way of wording correctly (contesting)

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misterwang

Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Brier, WA


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Post Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:28 am

Sorry about this long post but I need help.

I recieved one of the most BS tickets in my life (2nd ticket ever minding that I am 17)

In the area of my city here in Lynnwood, Washington. We have HOV exit lanes that usually the transit uses for exit to the park and ride, and has access to public as well.

As I was exiting, it is a ramp that leads upwards, to a stop sign, both north bound and south bound deal with a 3-way exit, turning either left or right to enter the park and ride. In this case there was a police officer in front of me when I was exiting, that california-rolled the stop sign. I had 3 passangers in my vehicle as I was exiting. Then a sheriff waved me down. Not even knowing what I did wrong. It seemed line the sheriff didn't even have line of sight with me. I did not see him until I even made the turn.

At the stop sign I made a stop that was completely enough to be able to look at north bound traffic, and the way I was turning before even re-entering traffic. But then I see a sheriff to my left-hand side that waved me down. This was the rudest officer I have ever been confronted by. He treated me as I was a kid that didn't know how to operate a vehicle, he didn't let me explain my situation or asked me questions.

Basically restating all that in simple terms:

As exiting the freeway, towards the stop sign. I made a stop that was complete enough to look both ways of traffic and clearly had enough time to re-enter traffic without endangering any other vehicle.

I am just scared to go court and they say that it was not worth the contesting. Can someone just help me word this a lot better so I won't be nervous in court?
paul

Joined: Sep 18 2005
Posts: 544
Location: Not here


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Post Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:32 am

It is definetely worth contesting, because even though the ticket may not be that bad, your insurance will go up. You've got witnesses, so I would fight this. Put the blow-hard cops in their place!

I'm lucky to live in a city with enough crime and drug problems for the police to not even pay attention to minor traffic violations, they have better things to do...! Most of the officers break the speed limit regularly, and I've NEVER seen a cop car make a complete stop to do a right-on-red. They're all pretty nice guys.
king_midas

Joined: May 25 2004
Posts: 609


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Post Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:56 pm

I'm not sure, what does that red octogon sign say?

I don't blame you though, I've done a couple "rolling stops", especially at night icon_razz.gif
stasis-

Joined: Jun 05 2004
Posts: 4517
Location: Texas!


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Post Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:18 pm

if you rolled a stop sign you're getting fined..if you see a cop roll it, it doesnt mean you can as well. thats why he has the badge/gun and you dont
misterwang

Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Brier, WA


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Post Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:31 am

I didn't roll it though, my stop was not the typical "wait 3 seconds and go"

But I will say it was way long enough and the most type of stop many people make before re-entering traffic. I was able to look both ways and go.
Avernus

Joined: May 13 2005
Posts: 483


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Post Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:49 am

did you actually "cease motion" at 1 point in time? or was there any moving. thats what they'll say.
mccook8

Joined: Jun 01 2004
Posts: 744


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Post Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:41 am

misterwang,

It may help to understand that the concept of "stop" is digital, not analog. There are not infinite degrees of stopping, and there is no such thing as a "complete ENOUGH" stop.

Either it WAS a complete stop, or it WAS NOT.

Based upon your choice of words, I'd guess it WAS NOT. Perhaps "almost", perhaps "a little bit", but not a complete, total cessation of forward movement and wheel rotation. Sounds to me like the police officer ahead of you was wrong, and so were you.

Here's a hint: when the car rocks backwards, you've come to a complete stop.
misterwang

Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Brier, WA


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Post Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:54 pm

mccook8 wrote:
misterwang,

It may help to understand that the concept of "stop" is digital, not analog. There are not infinite degrees of stopping, and there is no such thing as a "complete ENOUGH" stop.

Either it WAS a complete stop, or it WAS NOT.

Based upon your choice of words, I'd guess it WAS NOT. Perhaps "almost", perhaps "a little bit", but not a complete, total cessation of forward movement and wheel rotation. Sounds to me like the police officer ahead of you was wrong, and so were you.

Here's a hint: when the car rocks backwards, you've come to a complete stop.


Yes. I'll have to agree with you. Both of us was wrong.

But I believe I have a good chance contesting this. Only thing that irk'd me the most was the lack of respect he showed.
stasis-

Joined: Jun 05 2004
Posts: 4517
Location: Texas!


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Post Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:55 pm

What makes you think you can contest it again? It doesn't seem like you have much that'll make them dismiss it
misterwang

Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Brier, WA


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Post Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:53 pm

I never contested his authority in his first place, he was rude to me so I absorbed everything he threw at me. The reason why I am contesting this in the first place. My stop was well enough to look both ways to re-entering traffic.

First off the main reason I came here was for HELP. I was wondering if I could get help with previous people that may have had the similar ticket. Wondering what I should be saying to the judge so I am not making myself sound unreasonable. I was wondering what words sound better to judges and what not.
stasis-

Joined: Jun 05 2004
Posts: 4517
Location: Texas!


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Post Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:21 am

well to be honest, even if the cop was a jerk, it doesn't matter. if he says you rolled a stop, the judge will side with him
GlowinPontiac

Joined: Mar 04 2004
Posts: 5959
Location: Central CT


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Post Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:12 pm

stasis- wrote:
well to be honest, even if the cop was a jerk, it doesn't matter. if he says you rolled a stop, the judge will side with him

yep if the cop shows up and says you rolled the stop your screwed....but theres always the chance the cop wont show up in court........
Mav

Joined: Nov 26 2003
Posts: 2675
Location: So Cal


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Post Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:48 pm

The only chance you have at winning this case is if the officer doesn't show up in court. What you did would be considered a "Yield" and not a stop. It's a technicality, but they get people on it all of the time. That's why they teach you in traffic school to follow the 3 second rule. It protects you from getting that ticket because you in fact completely stopped and wated 3 seconds. Even if you are rolling 1/10th of a mile per hour, you are still moving.

There are a lot of technicalities with stop signs. I often see people who came to a complete stop still get tickets.. because they stopped passed the stop sign line because the intersection is a blind intersection, so they stopped at a position where they could see traffic on both sides before merging in. The legal way you are supposed to do it is to stop AT the line, wait 3 seconds, then slowly move forward until you can see past the obstructions and stop, look both ways, then you can go. It doesn't make sense, but tis the law...
taylor192

Joined: Dec 08 2004
Posts: 277


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Post Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:58 am

Fight it. Bring your witnesses and have each of them state you came to a complete stop before continuing. Yes it may be lying if you did roll the stop, yet that is your only way of fighting this ticket.

This is a great lesson learned. When cops are around, drive like a model citizen, make complete stops, stop at sto-lines, signal everything, ... otherwise you're begging for a ticket.

The rude cop is a whole different story, do not even attempt to address it in your fight to win your case - file a complaint against the officer AFTER your case is done - officers are public servants, your taxes pay their salary and you have a right to have good officers working for you - rude ones can join the job hunt like the rest of the morons in the world.
Complaints prevent officers from getting promotions, so if you want to get revenge as it seems, file the complaint.
GlowinPontiac

Joined: Mar 04 2004
Posts: 5959
Location: Central CT


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Post Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:43 pm

chances are if its a small town and you file a complaint nothing will happen.
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