2008 Election.

And IMO you are wrong.

But then lets have the canidates not vote and get them the **** outta our country.

Obama

Exactly, if you don't vote - you don't have the right to *****.

Whether it be gas prices, tax hikes, whatever the case - you're vote could have made the difference, and if you don't exercise that right, than don't ***** - simple.

Btw: Not trying to start an argument, just stating my opinion.

I can ***** all I want. Why vote for one person and get **** one way. OR vote for the other guy and get **** a differnet way. Either was we are getting **** with no lube.

You put someone with even a TINY bit of common sense in the polls and you can be rest assured I will be first in line at the booth.

^ Do some research then Dan, there are more then 2 ppl running for president and several of them have common sense.

TRogers wrote:

Phil wrote: Not voting, and honestly up until a few weeks ago I didn't realize the election was this year. Voting is a waste of time in my opinion. What tipped me off (other than the news) was the constant creation of threads on Oznium, these stupid mudslinging commercials that they air NON STOP, and we get about three automated political calls a day at home. It's beyond annoying. I hate politics, and if I had to choose a party I would be Libertarian.

Ron Paul is a Libertarian, write him in. McCain isn't far from a Libertarian himself either.

Ok. I can believe you there. But when was the last time an independent even came close to winning? When was the last time someone who wasn't one of the big "two" won? I got better odds at winning the lottery than I do at making a difference when I vote for someone besides McJoke or Obitch.

Ron Paul is probably the guy I would vote for if I could vote online (without doing much research), even though he obviously is not going to win. But only then, would I register to vote. I'm not wasting time by driving to a poll, and I'm not putting the effort into obtaining an absentee ballot. Nothing ever changes, no matter who is in office.

TRogers wrote:

Ron Paul is probably the guy I would vote for if I could vote online (without doing much research), even though he obviously is not going to win. But only then, would I register to vote. I'm not wasting time by driving to a poll, and I'm not putting the effort into obtaining an absentee ballot. Nothing ever changes, no matter who is in office.

Exactly. Why waste my time, my gas, and in turn my money to vote for someone who is obviously not going to win? I am not saying I am NEVER going to vote. I am saying that in this election it is not worth anything to me to vote. I do believe voting is a good thing and should be done when you have someone you truly believe is going to do more good than the other. But for me....this is not the case in this election.

^ With thinking like that your candidate of choice will never win. While the chances aren't great, there's always a chance an independent could win with enough support.

And as for taking the effort to vote: I spent 2 minutes filling out an absentee request online, it arrived in the mail, I filled in the circles for my choices, and mailed it back. Not hard at all.

Knox wrote:

^ With thinking like that your candidate of choice will never win. While the chances aren't great, there's always a chance an independent could win with enough support. And as for taking the effort to vote: I spent 2 minutes filling out an absentee request online, it arrived in the mail, I filled in the circles for my choices, and mailed it back. Not hard at all.

But it isn't my thinking. It is the electoral votes that decide this. And in the end there is obviously no chance for anyone else to win. It isn't rocket science Knox.

And that is 2 min of my life that those **** holes don't deserve to have. I would rather spend that time taking a ****. And a painful one at that.

Knox wrote:

^ With thinking like that your candidate of choice will never win. While the chances aren't great, there's always a chance an independent could win with enough support. And as for taking the effort to vote: I spent 2 minutes filling out an absentee request online, it arrived in the mail, I filled in the circles for my choices, and mailed it back. Not hard at all.

I want to sign in, click a button and be done.

And did you have to put your own stamp on the return? That would suck.

kornholio788 wrote:

Knox wrote: ^ With thinking like that your candidate of choice will never win. While the chances aren't great, there's always a chance an independent could win with enough support. And as for taking the effort to vote: I spent 2 minutes filling out an absentee request online, it arrived in the mail, I filled in the circles for my choices, and mailed it back. Not hard at all. But it isn't my thinking. It is the electoral votes that decide this. And in the end there is obviously no chance for anyone else to win. It isn't rocket science Knox. And that is 2 min of my life that those **** holes don't deserve to have. I would rather spend that time taking a ****. And a painful one at that.

If you have a laptop you could **** and fill in your info at the same time :laugh:

And as for the stamp TRogers, one of the candidates for another position sent me stamps to make sure I mailed in my vote so that was nice.

Knox wrote:

kornholio788 wrote: Knox wrote: ^ With thinking like that your candidate of choice will never win. While the chances aren't great, there's always a chance an independent could win with enough support. And as for taking the effort to vote: I spent 2 minutes filling out an absentee request online, it arrived in the mail, I filled in the circles for my choices, and mailed it back. Not hard at all. But it isn't my thinking. It is the electoral votes that decide this. And in the end there is obviously no chance for anyone else to win. It isn't rocket science Knox. And that is 2 min of my life that those **** holes don't deserve to have. I would rather spend that time taking a ****. And a painful one at that. If you have a laptop you could **** and fill in your info at the same time And as for the stamp TRogers, one of the candidates for another position sent me stamps to make sure I mailed in my vote so that was nice. icon_biggrin.gif

So true...I bet a good quarter of my posts were posted on the john.

Nice deal on the stamps

You have never seen me **** then. I am holdin on to everything I can to not fly off the seat. Think of........rocket boosters.

I voted Ron Paul. In SC, we can't do a write in. Major first amendment violation. I know a friend of mine was talking about suing SC about this. I don't know what the status is now though...

if u dont vote for anyone and just have the aditude of "nothing will change no matter what, why should i waste my time?"

imagine how many people think like you do... thats a lot of votes... it's sad.. if you actually did something, you COULD make a difference...

still satnds tho... If you dont vote for anyone, you have 0 right to ***** about whats happening..

zanson wrote:

if u dont vote for anyone and just have the aditude of "nothing will change no matter what, why should i waste my time?" imagine how many people think like you do... thats a lot of votes... it's sad.. if you actually did something, you COULD make a difference... still satnds tho... If you dont vote for anyone, you have 0 right to ***** about whats happening..

Meh. Until you come to my house and kick my ass, I will not stop *****. The joys of our country right?

If i knew all those people would actually vote for someone else. I would. But it is simple common sense in knowing it isn't going to happen.

kornholio788 wrote:

zanson wrote: if u dont vote for anyone and just have the aditude of "nothing will change no matter what, why should i waste my time?" imagine how many people think like you do... thats a lot of votes... it's sad.. if you actually did something, you COULD make a difference... still satnds tho... If you dont vote for anyone, you have 0 right to ***** about whats happening.. Meh. Until you come to my house and kick my ass, I will not stop *****. The joys of our country right? If i knew all those people would actually vote for someone else. I would. But it is simple common sense in knowing it isn't going to happen.

not common sense. i would explain more but i would much rather not on this form. my way of thinking makes people think im crazy or dilutional, or they just disbelieve everything i say so it's not worth my time to explain it to close minded people. (not saying you just people in general)

The majority of the population votes...and the majority votes for the mainstream candidates. There is no way a small time player like Ron Paul will ever win.

And I don't ***** about anything, it's a waste of breath and I hate to hear other people *****, but I could if I wanted to.

It doesn't matter who is elected, I guarantee you won't see a change. Well, I guess unless you're filthy rich or on welfare. Elections are jokes. This country will continue to run the same it has, and it will never change.


But we're all entitled to opinions, it's this crazy little thing called the First Amendment.

I'm completely behind Obama myself, and this is the first time I will be casting a vote for the presidential election . In past elections I usually held the same opinion that Korn's got.. just couldn't get behind any of the candidates at all . Obama is the first candidate I've seen run in my adult life that I was actually impressed by . His background, his education, his charisma, but far more importantly the sense of morality that I've found so completely lacking in most candidates for the last several elections .
I think the argument that he's inexperienced for a role like the presidency has some merit, but realistically it doesn't concern me . You think George Bush was experienced when he stepped in ? He was a governor with no experience in national governance, a sham military record, and a position that his daddy and the GOP handed him on a platter . The guy can barely string a sentence together, for god's sake . Why didn't the country descend into completely anarchy during his terms ? Because the President is surrounded by countless advisers whose entire careers are built around some specialty .
If Bush, or Obama for that matter, were in the white house, and some horrible international crisis popped off in the nation of Gabon, in western Africa, would we all be totally screwed because they didn't know anything about Gabon ? Of course not . They'd pull up the CIA profile on Gabon and read it, they'd call in experts who've lived in Gabon and could intimately profile the culture for them . They'd have access to all the information they needed and a sea of live experts to help them prioritize the data and develop a response to the crisis .
The same thing happens on every issue . Iran, the economy, health care, tax reform, education, renewable energy.. there is no way one man, no matter how intelligent, can be an expert on the finer points of every aspect of a federal government and national economy as complex as ours, its absurd . This is why we have a white house and a pentagon and a half gazillion people on federal payroll just sitting in cubicles cranking out reports and collating data .
The important thing is to elect a man (or woman) with common sense and a strong sense of morality based on the equality of man and his inalienable rights . Someone who will use those vast resources in the most constructive way possible, to accomplish the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people . I believe Obama is our best chance of doing this at the moment .

korn, I understand your argument but I don't agree with it at all . Your vote does matter, and if you do nothing to effect change in your government or your environment at large then you've essentially forfeited all rights to make justified criticisms of the world around you . Note I say justified . You're welcome to complain all you want, but you can't honestly expect anyone to take you seriously if you've waived your right to vote, and don't practice any other kind of activism .
Also, you seem to be glossing over the fact that the ballot has a lot more to it then putting a check next to Obama or McCain's name . Here in Cali our ballot also includes a vote for state assemblyman, a congressional vote, numerous local positions in education, and 14 propositions on issues ranging from *** marriage, to abortion, to renewable energy . These are hugely important issues that are decided as a direct result of the popular vote, without anything like the electoral college, which you site as one reason for not voting . So I think to forgo voting on any of these issues, especially appointing senators and congressmen, just because you don't feel strongly about a particular presidential candidate or because you dislike the electoral college, is absurd . (No offense intended) .

Also, your defeatist attitude toward voting for independents is the very source of the reason that voting for independents is "throwing your vote away" . Candidates want your vote . And they'll do their research to find who wants what, and then they'll offer that so you vote for them . If tens or hundreds of millions of people voted independently because they were dissatisfied with the two major party nominees, it would send a very strong message . The candidates would wonder why no one had voted for them . And next election they would be trying to figure out what issues had led people to vote independently, and they would integrate those issues into their campaigns, effectively bringing about the change that you'd wanted .
But because the majority of people who would be inclined to vote independent either abstain or vote for 'the lesser of two evils', it projects to analysts and the nation at large that the people who care prefer a bipartisan system, and the rest just don't care . Your vote does matter .

02BlueStang wrote:

Palin is a moron and a disgrace to the ticket. If McCain had chosen a better running mate he would actually have a shot.

I usually agree with you, but I think pretty highly of Palin. My vote next week will go for McCain. Obama and the other way left wing liberals scare me.

ShadowBOX wrote:

02BlueStang wrote: Palin is a moron and a disgrace to the ticket. If McCain had chosen a better running mate he would actually have a shot. I usually agree with you, but I think pretty highly of Palin. My vote next week will go for McCain. Obama and the other way left wing liberals scare me.

Amen. From usually agreeing with him to voting for McCain because of Palin.

Cooper -

Bush had and has more experience. How so? His dad was president for four years. He obviously got some experience there, haha. Plus, atleast he has military history. Obama doesn't. Hell, Obama has connection to Jerimiah Write (who was his pastor) and Wright is CLEARLY ANTI-AMERICA. Screw that.

You mention inalienable rights. Do you mean constitutional rights? Does't Obama want to get rid of the second amendment for the most part? Hell, he doesn't agree with it, that's for sure. Its the people behind the guns that kill people, not the guns themselves.

But I do agree. Get out and vote.

Obama is very anit-2nd amendment.

**** Obama and his distribute the wealth ****, wanting to take money from people who worked hard and earned what they have... **** unfair.

.

Chris wrote:

ShadowBOX wrote: 02BlueStang wrote: Palin is a moron and a disgrace to the ticket. If McCain had chosen a better running mate he would actually have a shot. I usually agree with you, but I think pretty highly of Palin. My vote next week will go for McCain. Obama and the other way left wing liberals scare me. Amen. From usually agreeing with him to voting for McCain because of Palin. Cooper - Bush had and has more experience. How so? His dad was president for four years. He obviously got some experience there, haha. Plus, atleast he has military history. Obama doesn't. Hell, Obama has connection to Jerimiah Write (who was his pastor) and Wright is CLEARLY ANTI-AMERICA. Screw that. You mention inalienable rights. Do you mean constitutional rights? Does't Obama want to get rid of the second amendment for the most part? Hell, he doesn't agree with it, that's for sure. Its the people behind the guns that kill people, not the guns themselves. But I do agree. Get out and vote.

At least we agree on something then . I'm not sure that W's dad being in the White House for four years practically contributed to his own fitness as a presidential candidate . To be honest, I'm more likely to take that as further evidence that he was unfit for office, and the only reason he was elected is because of the deep pockets and financial ties (international and corporate) that his family maintains .
Also George W's military record is a disgrace to the men and women in uniform and absolutely doesn't speak to his character or his abilities as a leader or even a responsible individual . He was specifically assigned to a unit where rich old men tucked away their sons so they could get the record without the possibility of ever seeing combat . And even then he had a poor service record and was often AWOL . This is a matter of public record, although rarely discussed . His "service" was a joke and a slap in the face to the US military . And of course we went and made him commander in chief .

And, I don't mean to be critical, but I truly don't understand how anyone could honestly believe that putting Palin in office would be a good thing . I think she's a very charismatic speaker and obviously has the ability the connect with people and give the impression that she's "one of us" . But I also think she's -completely- ignorant on almost ever major issue effecting the US today . When the campaign picked her up she was clearly hidden from the press while the GOP tried to prepare her, because she simply couldn't stand up to the scrutiny of the press . Even then she was displayed like a show pony and was almost never allowed to give an interview or go on record unless she was using que cards . Without a script she completely falls apart and descends into a meaningless string of catch phrases and buzzwords that the campaign has hammered into her brain . But she says nothing of substance because she doesn't understand what she's talking about, its just monkey-see, monkey-do . This is a woman who couldn't name a single print publication that she read to stay current on world events, and publicly stated that living in Alaska made her more qualified in matters concerning Russia because of its geography . Really though if you saw the VP debate and have seen the various clips floating around YouTube and it's still not immediately obvious to you that she's unfit, then I reckon nothing I can say is going to change your mind .

ShadowBOX wrote:

02BlueStang wrote: Palin is a moron and a disgrace to the ticket. If McCain had chosen a better running mate he would actually have a shot. I usually agree with you, but I think pretty highly of Palin. My vote next week will go for McCain. Obama and the other way left wing liberals scare me.

i honestly dont know how you can listen to her bs. i dont think i ever heard her really answer a question that was asked to her without a long round about answer that never really answers something.

Cooper -

I have seen clips, of both VEEP's, and Palin stands out great for me. But you're right, we all have opinions, and clearly we disagree here. Have you seen Obama try to answer a question without his teleprompter and cards? I have and damn, its uhhhh ummm hmmmm awful.

Kudos to Palin for being able to withstand todays media though. The media RIPS her apart. She was a wise choice for us conservatives and some republicans. She really helped, in (this agreeing way between you and me) by getting more coverage to McCain.

I tried listening to the the whole debate but it was so ridiculously boring. It was almost as bad as the second pres debate.

02BlueStang wrote:

Palin is a moron and a disgrace to the ticket. If McCain had chosen a better running mate he would actually have a shot.

I agree Palin is a scary person to be in such a powerful position...and to think that if anything were to ever happen to McCain she'd be in charge (serious chills with that thought),this is not to say that i agree with the views of Obama.

I do agree that its pointless to vote as the electoral college makes the ultimate decision, but I think voting for an independent or something just makes it a whole **** of a lot easier, people can go a little to far with this stuff though...and for some reason people think you don't have a right to ***** if you don't vote. Hhhrrrmmm.......

PwrRngr wrote:

02BlueStang wrote: but to address healthcare having seen it first hand....we already have a universal health care system...its call poor people dont pay, tax money makes up for it already. Does anyone honestly think that if you walk into an ER with an injury you wont be seen? There are Federal Laws against it. I too am not getting into this. But I bring up this question (BlueStang, don't feel obligated to answer this, it's more of a question to think about); if there's already a universal healthcare system (as stated), why make a more expensive one? Since one already exists, why make one that's going to cost the hard working taxpayers more money?

Because most Americans dont know how the system works....they think people without healthcare will get turned away....not the case.

Now the system we do have doesnt mean you wont get billed and it wont mess up your credit/credit score etc; it will.

But after a period of time the organization providing the procedure will be re-imbursed in some way.

My old work is a private organization IE private hospital so they have funding setup to pay for this and get a lot of help from Federal Funds....Public Hospitals receive all their funding from public tax dollars...so it is 100% re-imbursed by the government to keep the money flowing for funding to keep the hospital open.

So either its funded without people knowing or universal where people know where the money is going. Really it makes a candidate look better but it also helps people who would otherwise pay the bill except most people dont have 10-40K laying around to pay a medical bill you didn't think was coming. A Universal system or allowance would allow people to save their credit etc. I think some sort of program would be better than what we have now....I have GREAT insurance (80% coverage on ER Inpatient, 90% outpatient and 100% dental, vision and preventative medical care) but my total from my last stint in the hospital last month for 3 days, lab draws, meds etc is going to push 2K with insurance applied....its just crazy how much stuff costs.....I was going to get new wheels and tires for the truck....now they will wait and I will have it tuned up, powerslotted rotors and better brake pads installed.

If I didnt have a great job, I dont know how someone would go about paying for something like that.

You shouldnt have to worry about going to the hospital because you cant afford the bill....money shouldn't be a thought when an injury occurs; it's ridiculous.

and you guys do realize that the electorits of your state vote based on the state public vote? So your vote does count.

Each state has a set number of electoral votes based on how many senators they have. These individuals cast a vote based on polling from their public in their state, IE YOU.

Or they could just vote for who ever they want and disregard what the numbers say. And don't even try and tell me this doesn't happen. Corruption is not a new thing to our country.

kornholio788 wrote:

Or they could just vote for who ever they want and disregard what the numbers say. And don't even try and tell me this doesn't happen. Corruption is not a new thing to our country.

Public record allows you to see how they voted....if they voted not how the majority told them to vote...vote em out of office.

It can happen, but RARELY does as they usually lose their jobs come next election.

Change a couple numbers around and boom. Done. It is so sad that I have full belief that this happens more than we should know.

i was born a republican. i dont like either obama or McCain. but McCain is better because he is more right winged.

i don't care for polotics too much, too much reading! (it's a joke, i know you all are serious about your polotics.. don't hurt me )

Regardless of the opinions shared in this thread, you guys better be able to swallow the idea of the first black president, because in less than a week, we'll have one.

Meh, I give him 2 weeks before someone assassinates him.

02cougarman wrote:

i was born a republican. i dont like either obama or McCain. but McCain is better because he is more right winged.

explanation for why you think of yourself as right wing?

I personally sit right in the middle...I like some veiws of democrats, but also some of republicans....Im not really for far left or far right politicians.