So...my friend got caught

My friend, cousin of my girlfriend, got caught at a party last night. A cop was waiting outside or whatever and he went out with a girl to get pictures out of her car and bam the cop came at them or what not. He's 16, the cop booked him for underage drinking, domestic disturbance, possesion of illegal substances with intent to use and something else.

Keep in my, we used to always hang out and he wasn't like this, but now he hangs out with this new "group" - you know the type, real sleazy and if sh*t hits the fan then they split. Soo, he took the blame for all the kids in the house(15 or so) while they all hid and split, none came to help him. Messed upr ight?

He has a court date set and such. I'm telling him that he needs to address the fact the cop had no warrant for the breathalizer, questioning, searching of the car, and searching of the house. I'm also going to suggest he requests community service hours, to lesser the punishment?

What do you guys think he should do?

well if the cop suspects something, they can give a breathalizer, and wat not, but i think he should of went into the house also though. But yea i saw 6 or so kids at court get busted for underage drinking, and not much happened.........fine, community service, and i think supervision.........hopefully he wont get any more then that

Well as far as the kids in the house, I would have ran hid too. He got caught not me. Should they run out and tell the police I'm drunk too. Lock me up officer. Sure maybe they are not the greatest citizens but why go down in flames too?

It seems this person is no longer that close of a friend of is drifting towards another group of friends that is too bad, but it's his choose no need to bash them.

I don't believe the police need warrants to search a house or give a breathelizer. A neighbor or passerby most likely tipped the police to the party. Lots of kids milling around carrying booze is normally the first tip. The police just investigate.

[legal rant]
1st of all you dont need a warrant for a breathalyzer because it is an exception to the warrant requirement, due to loss of evidence (reasoning = if you have to take time to get a warrant the BAC will drop) [Established in Cupp v. Murphy] loss of evidence exception (to the exclusionary rule created in [Mapp v. Ohio]).

Secondly a car ALSO dosnt require a warrant as it is considered Mobile (loss of evidence again) and also can be used as a weapon (public safety exception to a warrant).

Furthermore the house has a plain sight exception (if a cop can see the "evidence" in this case drunk kids) in plain sight w/out a warrant (e.g. open door) there is no need for a warrant either.

SOOOOO basically just take the MIP charge and plead guilty and request probation (1st time offense?) its actually not THAT big of a deal. My suggestion dont fight it because you will lose for the reasons I already stated, and that will make the punishment worse

- Edit Oh and the cop also has the right to stop question and search (limited of course) ANYONE on the street [Terry v. Ohio] so the questioning is WAY legal.

[/legal rant]

oh yeah and if the kids were running as you say the cops can chase them (run into the house) [known as Hot Pursuit exception to a warrant] and then once they are in the house (w/out a warrant) the plain sight exception takes over and any kids drinking can be arressted ect.

or they could just knock on the door

will you be my lawyer?

hopefully in 3 yrs

Glowin97x are you a police? =D that was very edumacational thank you.

NO, you can DECLINE a breathalizer, hwoever, then they take you to the station, obtain a warrant, and do blood. So you are screwed. Also you can decline a search to a car. In that case, they will also have to get a warrant, and they will hold you until they do. I dont know why the loss of evidence would apply to this. If you decline either, its obvious you are guilty, so there is no point. Also, if they walked out of the house, they were screwed. You need to stay in the house, have all the windows closed with things in them. A cop cannot come into a house without a wararnt. Just dont answer the door. If they see something, its fair game. But again, not hard for a cop to obtain the warrant in this case either. If a cop shows up, consider yourself screwed, and thats the way it should be.

when signing your name on your license you agree to a breathalizer test if a cops asks you too, if you decline charges are to be pressed

he chose his friends and he made the decision to drink, have illegal narcotics on him so he should not throw a hissy fit when he gets caught....He knew the risks involved and I don't blame his friends for running away either, nor should he, Im sure he wouldnt have stayed if someone yelled "cops" into the front door of the house.....

I don't feel sorry for him, hopefully he will learn from this mistake and use it to further his life in a better direction though....If its his first possession charge he will get a fine and community service, the MIP (minor in possession) could really screw him over though if the courts decide to do so...my friend got a 5,000 fine, Youth at Risk, Community Service and his licensed was pulled till he is 25 ......

Most likely your former friend will get community service, some fines, court fees and it will be on his record.....since he is underage they will go away when he turn 18 though as long as the court has not ordered a certain age for them to expire on...Let us know what the outcome is, im interested to see 1) what his punishment is and 2) whether he changes who he hangs out with

thanks for all the feedback guys. I will be sure to let you all know when he goes to court and what happens. My girlfriend and I(and she's his cousin) stopped by his house todayto see him. We talked some then I asked him if he was going to stop with all the drinking and such, he said he doesn't know yet.

Both me and my girlfriend have been on his case for quite some time about getting off the stuff, so hopefully this serves as his wakeup call, if not, whatever comes his way then so be it.

when you go to a party and drink underage and have drugs in your possession you take the risk and if you get caught deal with it. if you dont want to get in trouble then dont do something illegal.

GlowinPontiac wrote:

when you go to a party and drink underage and have drugs in your possession you take the risk and if you get caught deal with it. if you dont want to get in trouble then dont do something illegal.

I AGREE!!!!

i couldn't agree more GP!

Golfer wrote:

NO, you can DECLINE a breathalizer, hwoever, then they take you to the station, obtain a warrant, and do blood. So you are screwed. Also you can decline a search to a car. In that case, they will also have to get a warrant, and they will hold you until they do. I dont know why the loss of evidence would apply to this. If you decline either, its obvious you are guilty, so there is no point. Also, if they walked out of the house, they were screwed. You need to stay in the house, have all the windows closed with things in them. A cop cannot come into a house without a wararnt. Just dont answer the door. If they see something, its fair game. But again, not hard for a cop to obtain the warrant in this case either. If a cop shows up, consider yourself screwed, and thats the way it should be.

Actually you're wrong. Yes you can decline a breathalyzer but the fact u decline allows them to take you in. (And force the breathalyize or blood for loss of evidence no warrant.)The "loss of evidence" is WHY you can be detained. You can decline to have you car searched but if the cop has any reasonable suspicion ("i smell weed") they can search you car right there W/OUT a warrant. And yeah they can go into a house w/out a warrant if you are running from them (or they see kids running) and want to chase them. You dont have to believe me you can read Cupp v. Murphy yourself.

First off i think alot of people that there facts mixed up im not saying i know whats right or wrong either but from my expeciences from when i got my possetion of alcohol. You dont have to consent to the breath test but they will get a warrent or they could arrest you. Car searches they have to have consent to search the car ( i know ive been pulled over enough) but they also will hold you until they have a warrent. but i think if you are being arrested when you were pulled over they can search with out one. Homes if they see you drinking they can come in trust me i know they did it.

yes they ask to search your car, but w/ any reasonable suspicion that a crime is being comitted (which can be easily made up) they can search it w/out a warrant. Watch cops, ever see a guy get pulled out of a car for prostitution or for smoking weed? They will search the car w/out a warrant.

I think it was just a misunderstanding of what i was trying to say. Not trying to get nasty w/anyone.

Glowin is 100% correct....if they have reasonable doubt to believe that an illegal substance or illegal activity has been committed on property then they have the law behind them when they decide to search the property....The constitution states "no search and seizure without due cause", if the police have cause to enter a premise or search through property, then they have the law to back them up.

If your friend is outside your house doing drugs and then decides to dash inside to hide from the police, your friend just opened the front door to your entire house and anyone inside ....Police can enter private property if A, they are invited in or are investigating a call regarding illegal activity and they believe it to be true, or B, they personally witness illegal activity in a residence or on a person

This kid got screwed cause he didn't know his local laws well enough.

I used to have parties at my house, big parties, 100s of people and many cars. Here we have 'private residential property' laws. You are legally permitted to drink underage on private residential property (same as freedom of religion, freedom to allow parents to determine what's right/wrong for their kids).

The exception comes when drugs are involved. If the officer can see/smell drugs then the officer has the probable cause to search. Then you're screwed.

The other trick is the officer will ask if he can search and most people just say 'whatever, sure' without realizing they are givin the officer complete consent to search everything and anything.

taylor192 wrote:

This kid got screwed cause he didn't know his local laws well enough. I used to have parties at my house, big parties, 100s of people and many cars. Here we have 'private residential property' laws. You are legally permitted to drink underage on private residential property (same as freedom of religion, freedom to allow parents to determine what's right/wrong for their kids).

That is BS, there is no state in the United States where it is legal to drink underage no matter who's property your on.

If you ever have a lawyer who tells you that, then you better fire him because he's to stupid to be a lawyer.

No matter what, or who's property your on, you have to go by the laws of the state.

I'm not flaming you, i'm just letting you know that you've been mis-informed.

ive heard of things like what taylor said its not legal to drink on private property underage but the cops cant go in the house even if they see underage drinking unless someone opens the door. but most towns around me are passing laws that say if a cop sees or suspects underage drinking he can enter the house wiht no warrant adn give anyone caught a 90 dollar fine and a court date.

Skymonkey wrote:

That is BS, there is no state in the United States where it is legal to drink underage no matter who's property your on. I'm not flaming you, i'm just letting you know that you've been mis-informed.

I live in a province, not a state.

You can search google for 'private property' and 'underage drinking'and find the laws for each state. Basically:

Quote:

Some States allow an exception for consumption when a family member consents and/or is present. States vary widely in terms of which relatives may consent or must be present for this exception to apply and in what circumstances the exception applies. Sometimes a reference is made simply to "family" or "family member" without further elaboration. Some States allow an exception for consumption on private property. States vary in the extent of the private property exception which may extend to all private locations, private residences only, or in the home of a parent or guardian only. In some jurisdictions, the location exception is conditional on the presence and/or consent of the parent, legal guardian, or legal-age spouse.

I'm not mis-informed, you're not well-informed.

GlowinPontiac wrote:

ive heard of things like what taylor said its not legal to drink on private property underage but the cops cant go in the house even if they see underage drinking unless someone opens the door. but most towns around me are passing laws that say if a cop sees or suspects underage drinking he can enter the house wiht no warrant adn give anyone caught a 90 dollar fine and a court date.

New Jersey is the only state with such laws that allow policing of private property for underage drinking.

Portland CT just passed a law allowing police to go on private property to arrest underage drinkers.

keep in mind it may not be illegal in those states where you have obtained this information, but im sure there is a social worker sitting somewhere who could work up a case for neglegent parenting or endangering a childs welfare and have them removed from the home

Parents who willingly allow their kids to drink are doing other things that are considered "bad parenting" that will get them into trouble. The point of being caught doing that just opens up a can of worms and background into the family and their parenting practices. (not true for all parents of course)

taylor192 wrote:

Skymonkey wrote: That is BS, there is no state in the United States where it is legal to drink underage no matter who's property your on. I'm not flaming you, i'm just letting you know that you've been mis-informed. I live in a province, not a state. You can search google for 'private property' and 'underage drinking'and find the laws for each state. Basically: Quote: Some States allow an exception for consumption when a family member consents and/or is present. States vary widely in terms of which relatives may consent or must be present for this exception to apply and in what circumstances the exception applies. Sometimes a reference is made simply to "family" or "family member" without further elaboration. Some States allow an exception for consumption on private property. States vary in the extent of the private property exception which may extend to all private locations, private residences only, or in the home of a parent or guardian only. In some jurisdictions, the location exception is conditional on the presence and/or consent of the parent, legal guardian, or legal-age spouse. I'm not mis-informed, you're not well-informed.

Tell me where you live and i'll do the search.

taylor192 wrote:

Skymonkey wrote: That is BS, there is no state in the United States where it is legal to drink underage no matter who's property your on. I'm not flaming you, i'm just letting you know that you've been mis-informed. I live in a province, not a state. I'm not mis-informed, you're not well-informed.

What we have here is FAILURE to communicate.....

Taylor's a Canuck. They do things differently up there. No US law applies, because it's not the US.

Strangely, I always figured that Canadians had FEWER legal protections....

To clarify a few American legal principles, though:

In order to search a HOUSE, an officer needs a warrant, consent, or probable cause AND any one of a laundry list of "exigent circumstances" (one of which IS, in fact, the likelihood that evidence will be destroyed or lost if time is expended in obtaining a warrant).

In order to search a VEHICLE, if the vehicle is immediately movable (even if it can only be moved by pushing or towing), all an officer needs is probable cause to believe that contraband will be found inside, and the officer may search the ENTIRE VEHICLE. If an officer arrests an occupant of a vehicle, he may search the passenger compartment of the vehicle incident to the arrest.

Investigative detentions ("Terry stops", from Terry vs. Ohio) -- an officer may briefly detain a person for further investigation if he has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime. He may conduct a pat-down or frisk (a search of outer clothing for weapons) if he further has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the person may be armed and dangerous.

Implied consent or expressed consent for alcohol testing: in most, if not all, states, by either accepting a driver's license, or by operating a motor vehicle on public highways, a person is deemed to have consented to a test of their breath and/or blood upon request of a police officer. A subsequent refusal to consent to such a test (normally only if DRIVING) is normally an offense (in Nebraska, it carries the exact same penalty as DWI).

mccook...just wondering...are the police liable for any damage done to a vehicle during a search? ive had my car searched and the cop just threw everything around inside and made a mess and scratched the hell outta my roof when he put my maglite and his metal clipboard thingy there. he didnt even allow me to put anything away and made me leave immedately.
btw nothing illegal was found and it was a traffic stop for a burned out headlight.

So lets say i get pulled over, They assume i have something in the car, they search the car WITHOUT my consent (being they had probable cause) Im not sure what qualifies what is and what isnt. Now if he searches my car and finds nothing at all, He can walk away from the situation fine? Like he wont have to fill out paper work for conducting a search without a warrent and finding nothing?

So in the end id get alot of my time wasted?

Im not trying to flame or anything, I just want to fully understand this.

Liability for damage caused intentionally or recklessly, yes.

Report on negative searches, depends on department policy and state law. In Nebraska, vehicle searches resulting from traffic stops need to be reported as part of racial profiling data collection (It appears, from the last couple of years' data, that Nebraska cops disproportionately pick on "Crackers" )

Skymonkey wrote:

Tell me where you live and i'll do the search.

Ontario, Canada

Laws aren't much different up here, its just how the are enforced. I don't hear/read the same level of police enforcement here as in the US, although we do have very similar laws.

As a Fraternity Brother who held the position of 'Social Chairman' I had to know the underage private property drinking laws when we had keg parties. Luckily enough we had some local Alumni that are part of the local police force who could come by and explain them.

There are lots of laws written very 'open-ended' for private property, underage drinking is just one of them.

mccook8 wrote:

What we have here is FAILURE to communicate.....

LOL, I know, that's why I used lots of:

taylor192 wrote:

mccook8 wrote: What we have here is FAILURE to communicate..... LOL, I know, that's why I used lots of:

sigh......missed movie reference.......Cool Hand Luke.......Damn, I'm getting old.....

Thanks Mccook i knew youd be along sooner or later. You managed to sum up what i was saying better than i could, of course that is to be expected!

mccook8 wrote:

taylor192 wrote: mccook8 wrote: What we have here is FAILURE to communicate..... LOL, I know, that's why I used lots of: sigh......missed movie reference.......Cool Hand Luke.......Damn, I'm getting old.....

Didn't miss it, just took it literally as well as got the pun.

Where are more pics of the blond leabing against your truck?

Mccook's truck is
awesome
only word i will use

taylor192 wrote:

mccook8 wrote: taylor192 wrote: mccook8 wrote: What we have here is FAILURE to communicate..... LOL, I know, that's why I used lots of: sigh......missed movie reference.......Cool Hand Luke.......Damn, I'm getting old..... Didn't miss it, just took it literally as well as got the pun. Where are more pics of the blond leabing against your truck?

http://www.streetsourcemag.com/Profile.aspx?profileid=21319

Only two I have.

taylor192 wrote:

Skymonkey wrote: Tell me where you live and i'll do the search. Ontario, Canada Laws aren't much different up here, its just how the are enforced. I don't hear/read the same level of police enforcement here as in the US, although we do have very similar laws. As a Fraternity Brother who held the position of 'Social Chairman' I had to know the underage private property drinking laws when we had keg parties. Luckily enough we had some local Alumni that are part of the local police force who could come by and explain them. There are lots of laws written very 'open-ended' for private property, underage drinking is just one of them.

Oh, Ok, you are probably correct then. My bad.

I don't know anything about the laws in Canada, i have'nt had the pleasure of being arrested there.

In my post i said "any state in the United States" and i still stand behind that.

Let's not get technical here.